http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRiD6MMFDDo
At the beginning of this video it is just Rebeca Kiessling talking about how she thinks pro life advocates saved her life by forcing her mother to have her against her will. She then goes on to say this.
(When speaking to the legislature)
" The reason why you get to hear from me today is because of those people who saved my life."
My Response:
I am really getting tired of hearing this over and over again from people like her. There are lots of poeple here today because of abortion. What about THOSE people Rebecca? It is because of people like me that THEY are here to speak.
(Rebecca)
" And actually four months ago twenty- two years from the day we met my birthmother and her husband legally adopted me. See I am a blessing to her. I have brought her healing."
My Response:
Not every rape induced pregnancy comes out to be a blessing. Alot of rape victims actually say that the availability of abortion was a blessing if not a GOD send. It is wonderful that your presence has brought her healing. It doesn't always work out that way though.
(Rebecca)
" People will say well don't you think it is a little extreme to force a rape victim to carry a rapist's baby?"
My Response:
I surely do. And most sensible people do also.
(Rebecca)
" Ok I am not the rapist's baby. He doesn't even know of my existence as in most cases."
My Response:
You most definetly are the rapist's baby. He forced your conception and birth. And from the description your mother gave to the police, you even look like him. Personality wise, you take after him in your need to control other people's private lives in order to feel like yours matters. And to a woman forcibly impregnated it most definetly IS the rapist's baby. It is his dna inside her all over again. She didn't ask for it to be there and for it to be created and to force her to have it is making him a part of her life forever. And what does him knowing of your existence have to do with whether or not he is your father? Considering how much you broadcast your conception around, I would not at all be surprised if he DOES know of you. Perhaps he even set out that day to forcibly impregnate a woman. This is actually practiced in places like the SUDAN as a means of ethnic cleansing. Not saying your father was trying to change the ethnicity of the local town but I'm sure knowing he forced his victim to not only have carnal knowledge violently against her will but to become a mother would be something he would be very pleased with.
(Rebecca)
" And what an insult to all the victims who keep and raise their child to suggest to them that their child is the rapist's baby."
My Response:
Many would and do acknowledge that their child is indeed half of their rapist. It is not a reality they hide or deny. And there are rape victims who are pro choice who decide to keep the child. And if a woman freely chooses to have and raise the child, it can be argued that that child is hers since its birth was her choosing.
(Rebecca)
" I explain to people that whenever you identify yourself as being pro choice or when you make the rape exception that what that really translates into is you being able to stand before me, look me in the eyes and say " I think that your mother should have been able to abort you." Which is like saying " If I had my way you'd be dead right now."
My Response:
Is this for real? Are these legislators really going to let her get away with this emotional appeal strawman bullcrap? I can't believe they are just sitting back and taking this. Rebecca, the world did not start with your birth. It isn't about wanting you dead or wanting to have a vendetta against you. This issue is vast and has alot to it. For you to make such a simplistic statement that people should narrow down this issue to YOUR specific birth situation and ignore everyone and everything else is childish and stupid. And now, if I had my way you would not be dead. If I had my way your mother would not have been raped in the first place.
(Rebecca)
" And that is the reality with which I live."
My Response:
It is the reality which you have created in your own little warped mind. Your mother absolutely should have been able to abort. Just as mine should have. You are playing completely on existential crisis. No one is trying to devalue you or your life. Get over yourself.
That is all for now folks.
Friday, July 29, 2011
Claire Culwell: A response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk0cW6MGLas&feature=related
(Beginning of video)
" My name is Claire Culwell. I am 22 years old. I am from Austin, Texas. I'm adopted and I know personally what adoption can do for a child and a family"
My Response:
Pro choice advocates know what adoption can do for a child and family also. That is why they also advocate for adoption to be one of the available options for a pregnancy. They also know what adoption is not for everyone and that abortion can be a vital service for people. I also find it very interesting that so many of these "abortion survivors" were put up for adoption. It shows that adoption isn't the end all solution to the problem of unwanted births and unwanted children.
( When speaking about meeting her birthmother and learning the details of her birth.)
" She told me that she was 13 when she became pregnant with me and her mom took her to an abortion clinic and she didn't know she had choices and so she went thru with the abortion.'
My Response:
It is very sad when a woman cannot decide her reproductive fate whether that is thru forced abortion or forced motherhood. Both are heinous crimes against the dignity of motherhood. I suspect the reason Claire had a good reunion with her mom is because her mom DIDN"T originally want to go thru with it. It is also wonderful that Claire seems to have a good life now.
(Claire)
" A few weeks later she realized her belly was still growing and she went back to the abortion clinic and they told her you're still pregnant. And so by that time she was too far along to have an abortion at that clinic."
My Response:
I hope the clinic was held responsible. If abortions are to be performed, they should be performed correctly. It truly is unusual though for this to happen. I also agree that there should be a cut off point for abortion. I have not formed a solid opinion yet on when that should be and under what circumstances should dictate the gestational period.
(Claire)
" Her mother dropped her off at the adoption agency. When I was born I weighed 3 pounds 8 ounces. My hips were dislocated. My feet were clubbed feet so they were turned in. And I had to be on life support and my parents couldn't pick me up until that two and a half months was over."
My Response:
I am sorry it was such a traumatic birth and am glad that you are doing so well today.
(Claire)
" GOD was faithful because they were praying for that baby while the abortions were trying to take my life"
My Response:
And what good anti choice video wouldn't include a reference to GOD in it. As stated in other blogs, this is largely a religious movement.
(Claire)
" While my birthmother didn't choose to give me life she still decided to give me what I like to call the greatest gift I have ever received and that's the gift of my family."
My Response:
I HATE HATE HATE when anti choicers use the word "choose." They have to know by now what a stupid comment that is to make. I cannot understand why they keep using that term when they don't want choice.
And a quick question young lady. Do you think your grandmother should be in jail for conspiracy to commit murder for sending her daughter to the clinic?
The ending is just some info on abortion statistics in the US.
More to come folks. Stay tuned.
(Beginning of video)
" My name is Claire Culwell. I am 22 years old. I am from Austin, Texas. I'm adopted and I know personally what adoption can do for a child and a family"
My Response:
Pro choice advocates know what adoption can do for a child and family also. That is why they also advocate for adoption to be one of the available options for a pregnancy. They also know what adoption is not for everyone and that abortion can be a vital service for people. I also find it very interesting that so many of these "abortion survivors" were put up for adoption. It shows that adoption isn't the end all solution to the problem of unwanted births and unwanted children.
( When speaking about meeting her birthmother and learning the details of her birth.)
" She told me that she was 13 when she became pregnant with me and her mom took her to an abortion clinic and she didn't know she had choices and so she went thru with the abortion.'
My Response:
It is very sad when a woman cannot decide her reproductive fate whether that is thru forced abortion or forced motherhood. Both are heinous crimes against the dignity of motherhood. I suspect the reason Claire had a good reunion with her mom is because her mom DIDN"T originally want to go thru with it. It is also wonderful that Claire seems to have a good life now.
(Claire)
" A few weeks later she realized her belly was still growing and she went back to the abortion clinic and they told her you're still pregnant. And so by that time she was too far along to have an abortion at that clinic."
My Response:
I hope the clinic was held responsible. If abortions are to be performed, they should be performed correctly. It truly is unusual though for this to happen. I also agree that there should be a cut off point for abortion. I have not formed a solid opinion yet on when that should be and under what circumstances should dictate the gestational period.
(Claire)
" Her mother dropped her off at the adoption agency. When I was born I weighed 3 pounds 8 ounces. My hips were dislocated. My feet were clubbed feet so they were turned in. And I had to be on life support and my parents couldn't pick me up until that two and a half months was over."
My Response:
I am sorry it was such a traumatic birth and am glad that you are doing so well today.
(Claire)
" GOD was faithful because they were praying for that baby while the abortions were trying to take my life"
My Response:
And what good anti choice video wouldn't include a reference to GOD in it. As stated in other blogs, this is largely a religious movement.
(Claire)
" While my birthmother didn't choose to give me life she still decided to give me what I like to call the greatest gift I have ever received and that's the gift of my family."
My Response:
I HATE HATE HATE when anti choicers use the word "choose." They have to know by now what a stupid comment that is to make. I cannot understand why they keep using that term when they don't want choice.
And a quick question young lady. Do you think your grandmother should be in jail for conspiracy to commit murder for sending her daughter to the clinic?
The ending is just some info on abortion statistics in the US.
More to come folks. Stay tuned.
CBN Anti Choice Speaker Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3adLns91_SQ
MY RESPONSE:
(Mellisa Ohden)
" I had always known ever since I can remember that not only was I adopted but that I had been born 4 months premature and that I had been very sick and very tiny. The doctors didn't have a very good prognosis for my life. And to me I didn't have alot of questions about that growing up because I guess to me it didn't matter because I was healthy I was in a great home I was loved and life was good."
My Response:
I find it hard to believe you were never curious about your birth. And why does it matter now? If you are healthy and happy why can't you just accept that and go on with your life instead of trying to profit off of your birth mother's misfortune?
(Announcer)
" She was fourteen when her older sister got pregnant out of wedlock and considered abortion."
My Response:
I always find it interesting that sexual morality is often mentioned in these videos. Seriously, out of wedlock pregnancy hasn't been stigmatized for decades. And it is absolutely pitiful that they take the difficult circumstances of family or friends and make it their own problem.
(Announcer)
" Mellisa's mother wanted to stop her daughter from having the abortion and told her daughters the shocking circumstances of Melissa's birth."
My Response:
If she wanted to stop her daughter from having an abortion, there were other ways she could have persuaded her not to. Like offering to help in any way she could. But that is common in the anti choice movement. Just get them to birth a baby and they are on their own. And to use Mellisa's birth as a way to guilt her into not aborting is deplorable. It obviously hurt Mellisa and it is a coercive way to make your point.
( Speaking about when she found out her birthmother had an abortion during her fifth month of pregnancy.)
" Mellisa, your mother had an abortion during her fifth month of pregnancy with you."
My Response:
I am curious Melissa. Do you support very early term abortion? And I have to wonder what would lead a girl to abort so late.
(Announcer)
" In 1978 Melissa's teenage birthmother walked into an abortion clinic expecting to walk out with her problem solved."
My Response:
Stop already with the minimization of these women's choices!!! They DO NOT just waltz in there expecting everything to be hunky dory when they leave. Also, in the video at this point you show a picture of a heavily pregnant women standing by a baby crib. Why would you show a baby crib? If the woman was going in for an abortion she wouldn't need a baby crib. I can only guess that the reason you included it was to reinforce the view that the woman in that scenario does not matter. She is only there to deliver a baby.
(Announcer)
" She chose a salin injection to end the life of her five month old baby."
My Response:
" Saline injections are no longer used in this country. And I absolutely love the wording here to demonize her mother. As if it wasn't already a really hard decision for her to make.
(Announcer)
"Mellisa recovered completely and lived a normal childhood until the circumstances of her birth were revealed."
My Response:
And she hasn't been able to live a normal life since. And it is because she is stuck in a state of existential crisis and is using the issue of abortion to soothe her wounded psyche.
(Mellisa)
" The biggest question was why? Why could you make that decision to end my life? Could I have been so unwanted, and so unloved by them. Even though I knew that Jesus loved me."
My Response:
Once again not even considering what the horrible circumstances were that put her mom in a position to need to have an abortion. All ME ME ME. And I knew the JESUS plug was coming. Anti choicers almost always come from a theological foundation.
(Mellisa)
"For me, it made absolute sense to look for my biological parents. I mean first of all I wanted answers and then it moved very quickly to wanting to let them know that I was ok. And I also wanted to let them know that no matter what I am still their daughter and to let them know that I also forgave them."
My Response:
I would think your mom would know from her medical records that the abortion had failed. And if you were so convinced that you were unwanted, why would you then go and try to rub it in their face that "well I am still your daughter?" Wouldn't you think you would want to back away?
(Announcer)
"Mellisa was able to locate her maternal grandparents who responded to her efforts with a letter and pictures. They decided it was best not to contact her birthmother."
My Response:
I'm not surprised that they didn't want to contact her. But this all makes a very compelling point. These people are soo adamant that adoption is the cure all to the abortion issue. Yet it often creates situations like this where children unwantingly contact birth families. I can't imagine what her birthmother thinks of all of this. How her birth daughter is exploiting her personal difficult situation for her own benefit.
(Mellisa)
" In the letter my grandfather included a couple of pictures of my mother. And when I looked at those pictures I couldn't recognize anything about myself in her. But that was a huge moment in my life too because I just remember always looking at that picture and it just hit me like a ton of bricks that 'Lord I get it. I'm not her. I wasn't supposed to be her. I'm me and I'm a wonderful gift the way you made me."
My Response:
You don't seem to get it. You are still caught up in the drama of your birth.
( Speaking about being a mother herself)
" I know that that was the Lord's plan for me also because all those years I just desperately wanted to be a mother. But I was very scared. I had to heal from alot of pain about my life. And so I didn't want to become a mother until I felt like I felt like I was whole."
My Response:
Your mother probably didn't want to become a mother either until she was whole. But according to you she didn't deserve a choice in the matter. And are any of us really whole?
(Mellisa)
" I literally used to drive past that hospital gripping the wheel of my car because it was so hurtful for me to know that is the building where I struggled for my life."
My Response:
I was stillborn due to doctor negligence. The nurses were able to revive me. I have since been back to that hospital and never once have I had the reaction she has had.
(Mellisa)
" There is no greater gift that a woman can give I believe than life to a child."
My Response:
Gifts have to be freely given. In your world there is no freedom. Only mandate.
(Mellisa)
" People can say all the time you shouldn't have lived. How could you have lived."
My Response:
IF people say that to you all the time, ( and I am skeptical as to whether they do), it is probably because you make a living off of it.
(Mellisa)
" And for me that answer is very simple. It was the Lord. He had every hand in it."
My Response:
You can't want to outlaw abortion because you think GOD planned you. That isn't a good enough reason.
(Mellisa)
" He made me the person that I am today to go forth and share his message."
My Response:
You arn't sharing his message. You are sharing your mothers. You are doing all of this for your own benefit.
What I find VERY interesting in Mellisa and other anti choice speakers such as her is their lack of concern for the welfare of their birth mothers. Mellisa says NOTHING in this video about wondering where she is or how her life turned out. Very telling and it just goes to show the way the anti choice movement views women and their roles.
MY RESPONSE:
(Mellisa Ohden)
" I had always known ever since I can remember that not only was I adopted but that I had been born 4 months premature and that I had been very sick and very tiny. The doctors didn't have a very good prognosis for my life. And to me I didn't have alot of questions about that growing up because I guess to me it didn't matter because I was healthy I was in a great home I was loved and life was good."
My Response:
I find it hard to believe you were never curious about your birth. And why does it matter now? If you are healthy and happy why can't you just accept that and go on with your life instead of trying to profit off of your birth mother's misfortune?
(Announcer)
" She was fourteen when her older sister got pregnant out of wedlock and considered abortion."
My Response:
I always find it interesting that sexual morality is often mentioned in these videos. Seriously, out of wedlock pregnancy hasn't been stigmatized for decades. And it is absolutely pitiful that they take the difficult circumstances of family or friends and make it their own problem.
(Announcer)
" Mellisa's mother wanted to stop her daughter from having the abortion and told her daughters the shocking circumstances of Melissa's birth."
My Response:
If she wanted to stop her daughter from having an abortion, there were other ways she could have persuaded her not to. Like offering to help in any way she could. But that is common in the anti choice movement. Just get them to birth a baby and they are on their own. And to use Mellisa's birth as a way to guilt her into not aborting is deplorable. It obviously hurt Mellisa and it is a coercive way to make your point.
( Speaking about when she found out her birthmother had an abortion during her fifth month of pregnancy.)
" Mellisa, your mother had an abortion during her fifth month of pregnancy with you."
My Response:
I am curious Melissa. Do you support very early term abortion? And I have to wonder what would lead a girl to abort so late.
(Announcer)
" In 1978 Melissa's teenage birthmother walked into an abortion clinic expecting to walk out with her problem solved."
My Response:
Stop already with the minimization of these women's choices!!! They DO NOT just waltz in there expecting everything to be hunky dory when they leave. Also, in the video at this point you show a picture of a heavily pregnant women standing by a baby crib. Why would you show a baby crib? If the woman was going in for an abortion she wouldn't need a baby crib. I can only guess that the reason you included it was to reinforce the view that the woman in that scenario does not matter. She is only there to deliver a baby.
(Announcer)
" She chose a salin injection to end the life of her five month old baby."
My Response:
" Saline injections are no longer used in this country. And I absolutely love the wording here to demonize her mother. As if it wasn't already a really hard decision for her to make.
(Announcer)
"Mellisa recovered completely and lived a normal childhood until the circumstances of her birth were revealed."
My Response:
And she hasn't been able to live a normal life since. And it is because she is stuck in a state of existential crisis and is using the issue of abortion to soothe her wounded psyche.
(Mellisa)
" The biggest question was why? Why could you make that decision to end my life? Could I have been so unwanted, and so unloved by them. Even though I knew that Jesus loved me."
My Response:
Once again not even considering what the horrible circumstances were that put her mom in a position to need to have an abortion. All ME ME ME. And I knew the JESUS plug was coming. Anti choicers almost always come from a theological foundation.
(Mellisa)
"For me, it made absolute sense to look for my biological parents. I mean first of all I wanted answers and then it moved very quickly to wanting to let them know that I was ok. And I also wanted to let them know that no matter what I am still their daughter and to let them know that I also forgave them."
My Response:
I would think your mom would know from her medical records that the abortion had failed. And if you were so convinced that you were unwanted, why would you then go and try to rub it in their face that "well I am still your daughter?" Wouldn't you think you would want to back away?
(Announcer)
"Mellisa was able to locate her maternal grandparents who responded to her efforts with a letter and pictures. They decided it was best not to contact her birthmother."
My Response:
I'm not surprised that they didn't want to contact her. But this all makes a very compelling point. These people are soo adamant that adoption is the cure all to the abortion issue. Yet it often creates situations like this where children unwantingly contact birth families. I can't imagine what her birthmother thinks of all of this. How her birth daughter is exploiting her personal difficult situation for her own benefit.
(Mellisa)
" In the letter my grandfather included a couple of pictures of my mother. And when I looked at those pictures I couldn't recognize anything about myself in her. But that was a huge moment in my life too because I just remember always looking at that picture and it just hit me like a ton of bricks that 'Lord I get it. I'm not her. I wasn't supposed to be her. I'm me and I'm a wonderful gift the way you made me."
My Response:
You don't seem to get it. You are still caught up in the drama of your birth.
( Speaking about being a mother herself)
" I know that that was the Lord's plan for me also because all those years I just desperately wanted to be a mother. But I was very scared. I had to heal from alot of pain about my life. And so I didn't want to become a mother until I felt like I felt like I was whole."
My Response:
Your mother probably didn't want to become a mother either until she was whole. But according to you she didn't deserve a choice in the matter. And are any of us really whole?
(Mellisa)
" I literally used to drive past that hospital gripping the wheel of my car because it was so hurtful for me to know that is the building where I struggled for my life."
My Response:
I was stillborn due to doctor negligence. The nurses were able to revive me. I have since been back to that hospital and never once have I had the reaction she has had.
(Mellisa)
" There is no greater gift that a woman can give I believe than life to a child."
My Response:
Gifts have to be freely given. In your world there is no freedom. Only mandate.
(Mellisa)
" People can say all the time you shouldn't have lived. How could you have lived."
My Response:
IF people say that to you all the time, ( and I am skeptical as to whether they do), it is probably because you make a living off of it.
(Mellisa)
" And for me that answer is very simple. It was the Lord. He had every hand in it."
My Response:
You can't want to outlaw abortion because you think GOD planned you. That isn't a good enough reason.
(Mellisa)
" He made me the person that I am today to go forth and share his message."
My Response:
You arn't sharing his message. You are sharing your mothers. You are doing all of this for your own benefit.
What I find VERY interesting in Mellisa and other anti choice speakers such as her is their lack of concern for the welfare of their birth mothers. Mellisa says NOTHING in this video about wondering where she is or how her life turned out. Very telling and it just goes to show the way the anti choice movement views women and their roles.
Why I respond
Why I respond
I have arrived folks!!! I just got my first negative feedback!! Yeah!! Anywho I thought I would take this moment and respond to it. I "attack" the woman in the previous post (ie: Rebecca Kiessling) because she isnt telling "her" story but her mothers and twisting it to make herself into the victim. I don't believe for one. minute that she sees her mother as a victim of something horrible. Yes, I have a tendency to post before proofreading. I am working on that. My thoughts tend to fly and I just post because I want to get my message out as quickly as possible because I think I have something important to say. I am new to this gig so give it time. The problem is this woman DOESN'T work towards ending rape. She exploits rape victims to feel better about her own bruised ego. She sees her mother as a means to an end. I am visceral for good reason. What she is doing is deplorable on every level. And not everyone sees abortion as the equivalent to murder. BTW, to JOHN the commentator on my THIS HAD TO BE DONE post:I DO own a bible thank you very much. Why does it have to be a new print? And are you suggesting that because I have an opposing opinion to Ms Kiessling that I can't or am not a follower of JESUS? It just goes to show once again that the majority of people in the anti choice camp are motivated by religious dogma and not rational secular arguments.
I have arrived folks!!! I just got my first negative feedback!! Yeah!! Anywho I thought I would take this moment and respond to it. I "attack" the woman in the previous post (ie: Rebecca Kiessling) because she isnt telling "her" story but her mothers and twisting it to make herself into the victim. I don't believe for one. minute that she sees her mother as a victim of something horrible. Yes, I have a tendency to post before proofreading. I am working on that. My thoughts tend to fly and I just post because I want to get my message out as quickly as possible because I think I have something important to say. I am new to this gig so give it time. The problem is this woman DOESN'T work towards ending rape. She exploits rape victims to feel better about her own bruised ego. She sees her mother as a means to an end. I am visceral for good reason. What she is doing is deplorable on every level. And not everyone sees abortion as the equivalent to murder. BTW, to JOHN the commentator on my THIS HAD TO BE DONE post:I DO own a bible thank you very much. Why does it have to be a new print? And are you suggesting that because I have an opposing opinion to Ms Kiessling that I can't or am not a follower of JESUS? It just goes to show once again that the majority of people in the anti choice camp are motivated by religious dogma and not rational secular arguments.
Response to MommyLife
http://mommylife.net/archives/2007/01/why_young_peopl.html
"In my last newspaper column, I touched lightly on the uneasy feeling experienced by many young people who know their parents could have destroyed their lives before they began. Yes, their parents chose them, but still - what a creepy feeling."
My Response:
How exactly can someone's life be destroyed if it hasn't begun? And you consider it unfortunate that their parents chose them? What I find creepy is that these kids are even worrying about this.
"Finally someone has articluated what I - as a boomer - could only guess at. Lucy wrote:"
MY RESPONSE:
So you are glad your mom had little choice but to have you when she became pregnant. I find that attidue to be extremally entitled and self serving. Your mom isn't here to birth you into the world. She had a mind and a life before you.
"I was born in 1974. I have found that even though I was "wanted" the culture has affected me. It really does make those of us born after 1973 feel something, even if we if don't know what it is."
My Response:
Speak for yourself. I am glad my mom had a choice. I happen to know alot of people who are here BECAUSE their mothers had abortions. And alot of millenials themselves have had abortions. The whole point of abortion being legal is so children CAN be born knowing they were wanted and planned for. It is only people who are severly insecure in their own lives that can't handle other people having freedom.
"Perhaps it's the knowledge that if we'd been born to different parents or at a less convenient time, we'd be dead."
My Response:
No if we were born to different parents and at a different time, we wouldnt be US. And for the love of everything decent; PLEASE antis, stop with the whole myth of "convenience." It is a serious matter that women contemplate. If they were so flippant, millions of women around the world wouldn't be risking life and limb to have abortions illegally now would they?
"It's almost like having a death sentence hanging over your head all of the time; knowing that it's only by God's grace that you were conceived by parents who would choose to allow you to live."
My Response:
I was wondering how long it would take them all to get to a GOD reference. Anti choice is by and lareg a result of religious thinking and not rational, secular arguments. And where was GOD's grace for those who were supposedly aborted? If GOD's grace saved you, why didn't he save them?
"I think that subconciously we feel that we were all supposed to die, but some of us escaped. Some of us were granted clemency."
My Response:
Right because every pregnant woman in the world is just dying to abort. Although sadly some of them ARE actually dying by giving birth or by illegal abortion. And yes I know women can and do die from legal ones as well. Any surgery carries risk.
"And we don't know how to deal with the guilt and the loss of family and friends we'll never know."
My Response:
How about you stop wasting your time and get to know people who are here now and help THEM lead fulfilling lives instead of contemplating what could have been? Live in the moment for cripes sake. Or better yet, get to know people who are here today because their moms had abortions. Your argument also goes both ways. What about the children that would be here today if their moms had been able to live to have another baby but she died from a back alley abortion? Or the children that would have been born if their mothers hadn't gone sterile from an illegal abortion?
"I think that loss has gotten more intense as the years have gone by."
My Response:
There are ALWAYS going to be pregnancies ending for one reason or another. If you are waiting around for abortion to be criminalized in every country you are wasting time.
"And I think it's one reason (among some others, but not that many) that younger people are so groundless and desperate for love."
My Response:
Not that many? You REALLY think that is the "main" reason children are discouraged today? And I agree the people in your camp are desperate for love, which is why you feel the need to control womens lives because you don't know any other way to validate your existence.
"A child is supposed to believe that his parents love him more than anything and love each other even more than that. But what is a child supposed to do when neither of those loves are certain? Just look at our culture and you'll see what children do. "
My Response:
I agree all children should feel loved. But part of being a good parent is having children when you are ready and can handle it. 60% of American women who have abortions already have at least one child in their care. Many state they have abortions due to obligations towards the child or children they have. And while we are on the subject of children. What about the 250,000 children orphaned worldwide every year because their mothers die in back alleys? Don't THOSE children deserve to be loved? And being born to ANY set of parents whether they could legally abort at the time isn't ever a gaurentee that love will be certain. And look to cultures where abortion is illegal. There are plenty of corrupted children in those countries.
"I look at my own children and wonder how the love of death in this culture will affect them. I want them to know that I love them and that their father and I will always love them and each other."
My Response:
Love of death my left buttcheek. Some of the most violent cultures on Earth are in countries where abortion is illegal. It is also worth noting that those cultures tend to be the most hateful towards women. I have an idea of how YOUR mentality will end up affecting them. They will probably grow up deeply insecure and unsure of themselves since they depend on others to validate their birth. I hope your children know you love them too. If you want them to know, tell them so. ( Hey that rhymes.)
"We trust God to protect their hearts and minds while praying that God will use us and them to reach out to a hopeless world with the message of eternal life and everlasting love."
My Response:
It sure doesn't appear as if you are trusting GOD with their protection since you are so terrified of our supposed "culture of death." And I hope GOD will use EACH of us to give this world hope.
"I'd love to hear more thoughts on this by those of you born after Roe v. Wade."
My Response:
Sure thing.
Signed,
A pro choice girl born after Roe Vs Wade AKA: Leia Pamela Peison AKKA: Me
"In my last newspaper column, I touched lightly on the uneasy feeling experienced by many young people who know their parents could have destroyed their lives before they began. Yes, their parents chose them, but still - what a creepy feeling."
My Response:
How exactly can someone's life be destroyed if it hasn't begun? And you consider it unfortunate that their parents chose them? What I find creepy is that these kids are even worrying about this.
"Finally someone has articluated what I - as a boomer - could only guess at. Lucy wrote:"
MY RESPONSE:
So you are glad your mom had little choice but to have you when she became pregnant. I find that attidue to be extremally entitled and self serving. Your mom isn't here to birth you into the world. She had a mind and a life before you.
"I was born in 1974. I have found that even though I was "wanted" the culture has affected me. It really does make those of us born after 1973 feel something, even if we if don't know what it is."
My Response:
Speak for yourself. I am glad my mom had a choice. I happen to know alot of people who are here BECAUSE their mothers had abortions. And alot of millenials themselves have had abortions. The whole point of abortion being legal is so children CAN be born knowing they were wanted and planned for. It is only people who are severly insecure in their own lives that can't handle other people having freedom.
"Perhaps it's the knowledge that if we'd been born to different parents or at a less convenient time, we'd be dead."
My Response:
No if we were born to different parents and at a different time, we wouldnt be US. And for the love of everything decent; PLEASE antis, stop with the whole myth of "convenience." It is a serious matter that women contemplate. If they were so flippant, millions of women around the world wouldn't be risking life and limb to have abortions illegally now would they?
"It's almost like having a death sentence hanging over your head all of the time; knowing that it's only by God's grace that you were conceived by parents who would choose to allow you to live."
My Response:
I was wondering how long it would take them all to get to a GOD reference. Anti choice is by and lareg a result of religious thinking and not rational, secular arguments. And where was GOD's grace for those who were supposedly aborted? If GOD's grace saved you, why didn't he save them?
"I think that subconciously we feel that we were all supposed to die, but some of us escaped. Some of us were granted clemency."
My Response:
Right because every pregnant woman in the world is just dying to abort. Although sadly some of them ARE actually dying by giving birth or by illegal abortion. And yes I know women can and do die from legal ones as well. Any surgery carries risk.
"And we don't know how to deal with the guilt and the loss of family and friends we'll never know."
My Response:
How about you stop wasting your time and get to know people who are here now and help THEM lead fulfilling lives instead of contemplating what could have been? Live in the moment for cripes sake. Or better yet, get to know people who are here today because their moms had abortions. Your argument also goes both ways. What about the children that would be here today if their moms had been able to live to have another baby but she died from a back alley abortion? Or the children that would have been born if their mothers hadn't gone sterile from an illegal abortion?
"I think that loss has gotten more intense as the years have gone by."
My Response:
There are ALWAYS going to be pregnancies ending for one reason or another. If you are waiting around for abortion to be criminalized in every country you are wasting time.
"And I think it's one reason (among some others, but not that many) that younger people are so groundless and desperate for love."
My Response:
Not that many? You REALLY think that is the "main" reason children are discouraged today? And I agree the people in your camp are desperate for love, which is why you feel the need to control womens lives because you don't know any other way to validate your existence.
"A child is supposed to believe that his parents love him more than anything and love each other even more than that. But what is a child supposed to do when neither of those loves are certain? Just look at our culture and you'll see what children do. "
My Response:
I agree all children should feel loved. But part of being a good parent is having children when you are ready and can handle it. 60% of American women who have abortions already have at least one child in their care. Many state they have abortions due to obligations towards the child or children they have. And while we are on the subject of children. What about the 250,000 children orphaned worldwide every year because their mothers die in back alleys? Don't THOSE children deserve to be loved? And being born to ANY set of parents whether they could legally abort at the time isn't ever a gaurentee that love will be certain. And look to cultures where abortion is illegal. There are plenty of corrupted children in those countries.
"I look at my own children and wonder how the love of death in this culture will affect them. I want them to know that I love them and that their father and I will always love them and each other."
My Response:
Love of death my left buttcheek. Some of the most violent cultures on Earth are in countries where abortion is illegal. It is also worth noting that those cultures tend to be the most hateful towards women. I have an idea of how YOUR mentality will end up affecting them. They will probably grow up deeply insecure and unsure of themselves since they depend on others to validate their birth. I hope your children know you love them too. If you want them to know, tell them so. ( Hey that rhymes.)
"We trust God to protect their hearts and minds while praying that God will use us and them to reach out to a hopeless world with the message of eternal life and everlasting love."
My Response:
It sure doesn't appear as if you are trusting GOD with their protection since you are so terrified of our supposed "culture of death." And I hope GOD will use EACH of us to give this world hope.
"I'd love to hear more thoughts on this by those of you born after Roe v. Wade."
My Response:
Sure thing.
Signed,
A pro choice girl born after Roe Vs Wade AKA: Leia Pamela Peison AKKA: Me
Anti choice Propaganda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dal0opeSnQ
RESPONSE TO THIS VID
Right off at the beginning of this vid, they state a bible verse JER: 5: 1
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you."
The fact that this verse was included pretty much tells you where the rest f this vid is going and that their arguments are weak since they have to evoke religion to make there "secular" points about what they think abortion law should look like.
About thirty seconds in, they have a disclaimer that parental discretion be advised due to the "graphic nature" of the subject matter. I find it very strange that they have a warning label on a video that is supposed to be teaching parents to force their kids to have babies against their will. But that is just one irony in several.
Our first "child of rape" is of course Rebecca Kiessling, the woman I critiqued in the last three posts regarding her narrative. She doesnt say much at first.
The next woman is another woman I know of named Pam Stenzel. A woman who has a similar rheotoric style as Kiessling except that her birthmother willingly and wantingly carried to term.
After Pam we have a woman named Kristi Hofferber. I have noticed at this point in the video that all three of these women are adoptees. I think that is telling that their birth mothers didnt keep them. Kristi goes on to say that her adoptive parents gave her more information than she ever expected. I am assuming at this point that means she wasnt prepared to hear of her conception. But lets continue the video and find out.
Next up again is Rebecca Kiessling. She spouts the same start she used in my other blog. She got her non-identifying information that had everything you could imagine about her birth mother but only that her father was "caucasion and of large build." How she kinda freaked since she thought that sounded like a police description. She then goes on to her next point about how she asked if her mom raped. At this point I can somewhat see the devastation in Rebecca's face. It is obvious this reality still very much pains her.
Up next is ANOTHER adoptee named Jim Sable. He states that he got his information about his birthmother and then turned the page to see she stated she had been sexually assaulted. His face in that statement says it all. This is not something he seems to have come to terms with yet. He even states that those words jumped right off the page.
Next up is ANOTHER adoptee, a woman by the name of Laura Tedders. Her demeanor right away strikes me as haughty. She talks about her birthmother who was raped when she came out of a bar. She goes on to say that her birth mother had two daughters already and a third one didn't fit into her lifestyle................ Words almost escape me as how to describe how callous and vicious of a statement that is to describe a pregnant rape victim. Almost. This woman is cruel to say something so horrible about a woman who was violated like that. Lifestyle lady? You think that was her concern? Not the fact that she was now forcibly pregnant by a violent criminal? She goes on to say about her birthmother, " Back then you didn't hear about abortion so she decided she was going to drink her chemical cocktails for nine months."HOLY CRAP. First off, abortion has been around for thousands of years. The first manuscripts date back to China in 3000 BC. And what your mother attempted to do was a lot more serious than a freakin cocktail lady! I also highly highly doubt it was just that she "decided" to. More than likely she panicked and tried whatever she could think of not to have to have a baby. She goes on to list the chemicals her mom ingested. I must say your mom must have absolutely been at the end of her rope, literally, to be willing to drink antifreeze. When stating all of this she shakes her head like she is just so perturbed. When she was born she states that she was born with cancer from all the ingestings of her mother. That is sad. At two days old her mom then dropped her off at her uncles house and he and his wife raised her. I can't help but wonder what her uncle's reaction would have been if her mom had died. Or who would have ended up raising her older sisters. She states that when she was 3 they had to remove her right eye from cancer and that her whole life was mainly spent in the hospital. Her next statements though leave me absolutely stunned. She says of her hospital stays, " it was GOD's plan and I followed it. It never bothered me at all." So it was GOD's plan for your mother not only to be raped but for her to drink a lethal chemical substance? It was GOD's plan for you to be born sick? And what exactly was your choice other than "following" it? You were a child. Its not like you had a choice. And once again, why the religious reference? You can't seek to outlaw abortion because you think GOD caused your birth. It also didnt bother you? You are coming across as very burned. I wonder if it bothered your aunt and uncle.
Next up again is Rebecca Kiessling. She starts up again with her " i contacted my birth mother and we planned to meet up" bit. She starts with telling the story of how her mother sent her a letter telling her how beautiful she was. Her next statement is the jackpot sentence. Rebecca then says, "and that was so affirming. because it means i was wanted." That is the only reason Rebecca does what she does. She wants to feel wanted. She CRAVES attention and affirmation by the world.
Next up is Kristi Hofferber again. She goes on to describe how she found out about her birthmom and that her bio father is also her bio grandad since it was incestuous rape. Her face during this is full of pain. I truly am sorry you had to learn such horrors. I hope you are managing to have a good life despite it.
Our next child is ANOTHER ADOPTEE (imagine that) named Carole Roy. She just briefly says she met her bmom when she was 17. That is when she learned of her conception. Not much else at that point in the video.
Next up is ANOTHER adoptee named Shawn Spry.She goes on to say how she petitioned the courts when she became of age. They couldn't contact her birthmother but they did find her maternal grandmother who was very angry to be found. I can understand why. Chances are she was still hurting over what happened to her daughter and just wanted to try to get hers and her daughter's life back to some kind of normalcy.She then goes on to say her maternal grandmother stated to her "you should have been aborted." I can't imagine how hard that must have been for her to hear. I mean it when I say I hope shawn has risen above it. And I hope her maternal grandmother and mother have healed as well. I suspect though that this is the reason shawn is so adamantly against abortion rights. Because she personally feels burned and unwanted.
FINALLY! we get to a non adoptee. A man by the name of Tony Kiessling. He describes how his mom told him she was working at a diner and they had regular customers. He was waiting for her mom out in the parking lot and got her into his car where he took her to a park and raped her. How very sad. Tony looks hurt also. I can also understand why.
Back to pam stenzel in the next segment. She tells how in her freshmen year she found out her father was a rapist. Her birthmom was a foster child herself.
Next is Rebecca Kiessling telling how her reunion with her bmom was great but she still needed to know that one question: the abortion one. She then relates how her mom told her how she tried to abort but couldn't. The next sentence is the one that anti choicers such as her spew at me constantly and i CAN'T stand it.she says " my mother didnt choose life for me. she chose abortion. but prolife advocates in michigan chose life for me." you dont believe anyones mom should choose life. you dont believe there should be choice at all. And they didn't choose your life. Your father and a sexist, mysoginistic culture did. She goes on to say, " They made sure abortion was illegal even in cases of rape." They made sure? What like they made sure that everything was perfect and just what needed to be in order for Rebecca to be born? :ike they crossed all their t's and dotted all their I"s? She goes on to say they are her heroes and she owes her life to them. No. you owe your life to the fact that abusive people in positions of power chose to strip your mom of her dignity, your father first when her raped her and the government second when they took away choice from her again.
Back now to Laura Tedders. She starts in by saying that it was devastating for her to learn that she was her mother and that she was a product of rape. She says this with a tone of disgust in her voice. She says she had alot of resentment that she carried around for a long time. Yeah, you seem to still have some. Not just some. Alot in fact. I also can't imagine the resentment your mom must have had. She keeps going by saying that one day she was in church and the priest said that she would never get to heaven if she still had some resentments, That everyone needed to get closure. So she thought on it. She then decided to contact her birthmother. Ok. did you EVEN STOP ONCE to think your bmom could be hurt by your contacting her? She then tells how she called her mom. Almost immediately after she starts to talk her bmom starts telling her that she hates her and that she's always hated her and that she doesn't like how she has turned out because she is a spoiled rotten brat. Obviously her mom was still in deep, deep pain over her rape and subsequent forced maternity and motherhood. Understandably so. This just points to my argument that forcing rape victims to have babies does incredible damage to people. It isn't always a fairy tale ending. Laura says she was shocked by her moms response. REALLY? A woman that would be willing to drink caustic substances for 9 months sounds like someone that would be kind to you? But by laura's next response, I have to agree with the mom that Laura is indeed a spoiled rotten brat. Laura then says that she went ahead and talked to her because she wanted closure. YOU wanted closure? YOU wanted closure? How about your mom, the VICTIM? Didn't she deserve closure? She never got it because she was forced to have you. Why didn't you think you could use that call to help HER heal. But that isn't the worst part. What Laura says next had me wanting to throw my laptop across the room. She proceeds to tell her mom ( in a very haughty manner), " I am just calling to say thank you for giving me away. Thank you so much. They saved my life. They saved my one eye. And GOD bless you for it. Thank you." She then hung up.
I have to take a breather a little bit over that last sentence. I cannot comprehend how much hatred Laura has in her heart. What would possess someone to be so cold to a woman who was violated like that? My GOD laura do you have any appreciation for the fact that your mom's life was ruined? Why didn't you say GOD bless her PERIOD?! She probably could have used some of GOD's blessings right about then. Laura then says she values her life and every day is a good day. She says this all very arrogantly. I am glad laura has a good life and she should value herself and want to take care of herself. No one is asking her not to. What we are saying is your life should not have come at the expense of your mothers. Unfortunately, it did
Next up is a new adoptee named Mark Taylor. He starts by saying he investigated his birth by going to his birthmothers hometown. He found out that there had probably been a rape, more than one. He says this knowledge infuriated him. This is the first time in this entire video any of these children of rape have expressed rage over their mother's plight. I applaud you for that Mr Taylor. You had good reason to be enraged. I am enraged for you and your mother both. Unfortunately, he somewhat diminishes his hero status in his next sentence. He then states, " I then thought, I'm still lucky to be alive because she didn't abort me." Every person on this planet can say they are lucky to be alive because of innumerable criteria. Yes, Mark absolutely should enjoy his life and wake up everyday with a smile on his face. I hope he does. But to say he is lucky to be alive because his mom didn't abort him is silly. It would not have mattered if she had. And it would have been her choice.
Next is Kristi Hofferber. She says learning about her birth took her awhile to process. I dont doubt that it did. She then goes on to say that ultimately she realized it doesn't matter who her biological father is. GOD is her father. Sorry, but that isn't reason enough to make abortion illegal. You are free to theologically believe that.
Next is Tony Kiessling. He states that he couldn't see possibly how something like that (rape) would fit into GOD's plan for his life. What about your mother's life? Did it fit into hers? So far you have said nothing of your mom except that she was raped. And you can't use religious arguments for secular legislative rulings. He goes on to say he spent five years running from the truth. That is very sad. He also has seemed to internalize the circumstances of his conception with his life. Very sad. He says eventually he came to know of some key passages in scripture that helped him out alot. I agree that scripture can sometimes help. On some of my darkest days it has helped me.
Next up is Carole Roy again. She says that she wasn't in any way traumatized by learning of her conception since she always knew deep down GOD wanted her here. I am glad you weren't traumatized. But i don't believe for a minute GOD sent your dad to rape your mom so you could be here.
Next up again is Pam Stenzel. She goes on to say that she hasn't met her birthmom yet but wants to. I will give you this advice. Consider carefully if that would be good for her. She goes on to say when she does meet her she is gonna wrap her arms around her and tell her that she loves her. Ok, alot of rape victims arn't comfortable with touch so you might want to think about that one carefully. She says she loves her because she first loved her, loved her enough to give her her life and her adoptive family. Ok, why can't you just love her for being her? Why can't you love her for surviving a horrible nightmare imposed upon her by a predator? Why can't you love her for being your mom? And she gave you life? What if she hadn't? You love her ONLY because she made the choice you agree with? And since you don't think abortion should even be an option, why do you say she loved you enough to have you? And since you all on this video seem to be on a biblical kick, let me throw a verse at you. While we were YET sinners, CHRIST died for us. So you should love your mom even if she had wanted an abortion.
Shawn Spry is our next runner up. She say that she was taken aback but ultimately it didn't matter because she was chosen by GOD and that everything works out for a purpose. Ok, knowing that everything works out for a purpose doesn't mean we should encourage or condone the events that get us there.
And right back to Laura Tedders. She says every day she wakes up and thanks the LORD for her gift of life. Im just curious. Do you ever pray for your mother if she is still alive? Do you pray for healing for women like her? She goes on to say how great her life is. A husband and 3 grandchildren, and that if she was aborted they wouldn't be here. It's all GOD's plan if you just follow him.
Omgosh!!! Laura what is wrong with you? I think those chemicals may have seeped into your brain. They wouldn't be here? They and everyone else on this planet wouldn't be here if such and such hadn't happened. And no. It isn't GOD's plan for rape to happen to ANYONE. She even freakin says it with a smile on her face!!
At the end it says that all life is valuable and worthy of legal protection, even in cases of rape and incest. That rape victims need real help and not abortion. What rape victims need is for nosy demogoges such as yourself butting out of their lives and letting them make decisions for their own personal healing journey. Yours isn't help. It is coercion at best and assault at worst.
RESPONSE TO THIS VID
Right off at the beginning of this vid, they state a bible verse JER: 5: 1
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you."
The fact that this verse was included pretty much tells you where the rest f this vid is going and that their arguments are weak since they have to evoke religion to make there "secular" points about what they think abortion law should look like.
About thirty seconds in, they have a disclaimer that parental discretion be advised due to the "graphic nature" of the subject matter. I find it very strange that they have a warning label on a video that is supposed to be teaching parents to force their kids to have babies against their will. But that is just one irony in several.
Our first "child of rape" is of course Rebecca Kiessling, the woman I critiqued in the last three posts regarding her narrative. She doesnt say much at first.
The next woman is another woman I know of named Pam Stenzel. A woman who has a similar rheotoric style as Kiessling except that her birthmother willingly and wantingly carried to term.
After Pam we have a woman named Kristi Hofferber. I have noticed at this point in the video that all three of these women are adoptees. I think that is telling that their birth mothers didnt keep them. Kristi goes on to say that her adoptive parents gave her more information than she ever expected. I am assuming at this point that means she wasnt prepared to hear of her conception. But lets continue the video and find out.
Next up again is Rebecca Kiessling. She spouts the same start she used in my other blog. She got her non-identifying information that had everything you could imagine about her birth mother but only that her father was "caucasion and of large build." How she kinda freaked since she thought that sounded like a police description. She then goes on to her next point about how she asked if her mom raped. At this point I can somewhat see the devastation in Rebecca's face. It is obvious this reality still very much pains her.
Up next is ANOTHER adoptee named Jim Sable. He states that he got his information about his birthmother and then turned the page to see she stated she had been sexually assaulted. His face in that statement says it all. This is not something he seems to have come to terms with yet. He even states that those words jumped right off the page.
Next up is ANOTHER adoptee, a woman by the name of Laura Tedders. Her demeanor right away strikes me as haughty. She talks about her birthmother who was raped when she came out of a bar. She goes on to say that her birth mother had two daughters already and a third one didn't fit into her lifestyle................ Words almost escape me as how to describe how callous and vicious of a statement that is to describe a pregnant rape victim. Almost. This woman is cruel to say something so horrible about a woman who was violated like that. Lifestyle lady? You think that was her concern? Not the fact that she was now forcibly pregnant by a violent criminal? She goes on to say about her birthmother, " Back then you didn't hear about abortion so she decided she was going to drink her chemical cocktails for nine months."HOLY CRAP. First off, abortion has been around for thousands of years. The first manuscripts date back to China in 3000 BC. And what your mother attempted to do was a lot more serious than a freakin cocktail lady! I also highly highly doubt it was just that she "decided" to. More than likely she panicked and tried whatever she could think of not to have to have a baby. She goes on to list the chemicals her mom ingested. I must say your mom must have absolutely been at the end of her rope, literally, to be willing to drink antifreeze. When stating all of this she shakes her head like she is just so perturbed. When she was born she states that she was born with cancer from all the ingestings of her mother. That is sad. At two days old her mom then dropped her off at her uncles house and he and his wife raised her. I can't help but wonder what her uncle's reaction would have been if her mom had died. Or who would have ended up raising her older sisters. She states that when she was 3 they had to remove her right eye from cancer and that her whole life was mainly spent in the hospital. Her next statements though leave me absolutely stunned. She says of her hospital stays, " it was GOD's plan and I followed it. It never bothered me at all." So it was GOD's plan for your mother not only to be raped but for her to drink a lethal chemical substance? It was GOD's plan for you to be born sick? And what exactly was your choice other than "following" it? You were a child. Its not like you had a choice. And once again, why the religious reference? You can't seek to outlaw abortion because you think GOD caused your birth. It also didnt bother you? You are coming across as very burned. I wonder if it bothered your aunt and uncle.
Next up again is Rebecca Kiessling. She starts up again with her " i contacted my birth mother and we planned to meet up" bit. She starts with telling the story of how her mother sent her a letter telling her how beautiful she was. Her next statement is the jackpot sentence. Rebecca then says, "and that was so affirming. because it means i was wanted." That is the only reason Rebecca does what she does. She wants to feel wanted. She CRAVES attention and affirmation by the world.
Next up is Kristi Hofferber again. She goes on to describe how she found out about her birthmom and that her bio father is also her bio grandad since it was incestuous rape. Her face during this is full of pain. I truly am sorry you had to learn such horrors. I hope you are managing to have a good life despite it.
Our next child is ANOTHER ADOPTEE (imagine that) named Carole Roy. She just briefly says she met her bmom when she was 17. That is when she learned of her conception. Not much else at that point in the video.
Next up is ANOTHER adoptee named Shawn Spry.She goes on to say how she petitioned the courts when she became of age. They couldn't contact her birthmother but they did find her maternal grandmother who was very angry to be found. I can understand why. Chances are she was still hurting over what happened to her daughter and just wanted to try to get hers and her daughter's life back to some kind of normalcy.She then goes on to say her maternal grandmother stated to her "you should have been aborted." I can't imagine how hard that must have been for her to hear. I mean it when I say I hope shawn has risen above it. And I hope her maternal grandmother and mother have healed as well. I suspect though that this is the reason shawn is so adamantly against abortion rights. Because she personally feels burned and unwanted.
FINALLY! we get to a non adoptee. A man by the name of Tony Kiessling. He describes how his mom told him she was working at a diner and they had regular customers. He was waiting for her mom out in the parking lot and got her into his car where he took her to a park and raped her. How very sad. Tony looks hurt also. I can also understand why.
Back to pam stenzel in the next segment. She tells how in her freshmen year she found out her father was a rapist. Her birthmom was a foster child herself.
Next is Rebecca Kiessling telling how her reunion with her bmom was great but she still needed to know that one question: the abortion one. She then relates how her mom told her how she tried to abort but couldn't. The next sentence is the one that anti choicers such as her spew at me constantly and i CAN'T stand it.she says " my mother didnt choose life for me. she chose abortion. but prolife advocates in michigan chose life for me." you dont believe anyones mom should choose life. you dont believe there should be choice at all. And they didn't choose your life. Your father and a sexist, mysoginistic culture did. She goes on to say, " They made sure abortion was illegal even in cases of rape." They made sure? What like they made sure that everything was perfect and just what needed to be in order for Rebecca to be born? :ike they crossed all their t's and dotted all their I"s? She goes on to say they are her heroes and she owes her life to them. No. you owe your life to the fact that abusive people in positions of power chose to strip your mom of her dignity, your father first when her raped her and the government second when they took away choice from her again.
Back now to Laura Tedders. She starts in by saying that it was devastating for her to learn that she was her mother and that she was a product of rape. She says this with a tone of disgust in her voice. She says she had alot of resentment that she carried around for a long time. Yeah, you seem to still have some. Not just some. Alot in fact. I also can't imagine the resentment your mom must have had. She keeps going by saying that one day she was in church and the priest said that she would never get to heaven if she still had some resentments, That everyone needed to get closure. So she thought on it. She then decided to contact her birthmother. Ok. did you EVEN STOP ONCE to think your bmom could be hurt by your contacting her? She then tells how she called her mom. Almost immediately after she starts to talk her bmom starts telling her that she hates her and that she's always hated her and that she doesn't like how she has turned out because she is a spoiled rotten brat. Obviously her mom was still in deep, deep pain over her rape and subsequent forced maternity and motherhood. Understandably so. This just points to my argument that forcing rape victims to have babies does incredible damage to people. It isn't always a fairy tale ending. Laura says she was shocked by her moms response. REALLY? A woman that would be willing to drink caustic substances for 9 months sounds like someone that would be kind to you? But by laura's next response, I have to agree with the mom that Laura is indeed a spoiled rotten brat. Laura then says that she went ahead and talked to her because she wanted closure. YOU wanted closure? YOU wanted closure? How about your mom, the VICTIM? Didn't she deserve closure? She never got it because she was forced to have you. Why didn't you think you could use that call to help HER heal. But that isn't the worst part. What Laura says next had me wanting to throw my laptop across the room. She proceeds to tell her mom ( in a very haughty manner), " I am just calling to say thank you for giving me away. Thank you so much. They saved my life. They saved my one eye. And GOD bless you for it. Thank you." She then hung up.
I have to take a breather a little bit over that last sentence. I cannot comprehend how much hatred Laura has in her heart. What would possess someone to be so cold to a woman who was violated like that? My GOD laura do you have any appreciation for the fact that your mom's life was ruined? Why didn't you say GOD bless her PERIOD?! She probably could have used some of GOD's blessings right about then. Laura then says she values her life and every day is a good day. She says this all very arrogantly. I am glad laura has a good life and she should value herself and want to take care of herself. No one is asking her not to. What we are saying is your life should not have come at the expense of your mothers. Unfortunately, it did
Next up is a new adoptee named Mark Taylor. He starts by saying he investigated his birth by going to his birthmothers hometown. He found out that there had probably been a rape, more than one. He says this knowledge infuriated him. This is the first time in this entire video any of these children of rape have expressed rage over their mother's plight. I applaud you for that Mr Taylor. You had good reason to be enraged. I am enraged for you and your mother both. Unfortunately, he somewhat diminishes his hero status in his next sentence. He then states, " I then thought, I'm still lucky to be alive because she didn't abort me." Every person on this planet can say they are lucky to be alive because of innumerable criteria. Yes, Mark absolutely should enjoy his life and wake up everyday with a smile on his face. I hope he does. But to say he is lucky to be alive because his mom didn't abort him is silly. It would not have mattered if she had. And it would have been her choice.
Next is Kristi Hofferber. She says learning about her birth took her awhile to process. I dont doubt that it did. She then goes on to say that ultimately she realized it doesn't matter who her biological father is. GOD is her father. Sorry, but that isn't reason enough to make abortion illegal. You are free to theologically believe that.
Next is Tony Kiessling. He states that he couldn't see possibly how something like that (rape) would fit into GOD's plan for his life. What about your mother's life? Did it fit into hers? So far you have said nothing of your mom except that she was raped. And you can't use religious arguments for secular legislative rulings. He goes on to say he spent five years running from the truth. That is very sad. He also has seemed to internalize the circumstances of his conception with his life. Very sad. He says eventually he came to know of some key passages in scripture that helped him out alot. I agree that scripture can sometimes help. On some of my darkest days it has helped me.
Next up is Carole Roy again. She says that she wasn't in any way traumatized by learning of her conception since she always knew deep down GOD wanted her here. I am glad you weren't traumatized. But i don't believe for a minute GOD sent your dad to rape your mom so you could be here.
Next up again is Pam Stenzel. She goes on to say that she hasn't met her birthmom yet but wants to. I will give you this advice. Consider carefully if that would be good for her. She goes on to say when she does meet her she is gonna wrap her arms around her and tell her that she loves her. Ok, alot of rape victims arn't comfortable with touch so you might want to think about that one carefully. She says she loves her because she first loved her, loved her enough to give her her life and her adoptive family. Ok, why can't you just love her for being her? Why can't you love her for surviving a horrible nightmare imposed upon her by a predator? Why can't you love her for being your mom? And she gave you life? What if she hadn't? You love her ONLY because she made the choice you agree with? And since you don't think abortion should even be an option, why do you say she loved you enough to have you? And since you all on this video seem to be on a biblical kick, let me throw a verse at you. While we were YET sinners, CHRIST died for us. So you should love your mom even if she had wanted an abortion.
Shawn Spry is our next runner up. She say that she was taken aback but ultimately it didn't matter because she was chosen by GOD and that everything works out for a purpose. Ok, knowing that everything works out for a purpose doesn't mean we should encourage or condone the events that get us there.
And right back to Laura Tedders. She says every day she wakes up and thanks the LORD for her gift of life. Im just curious. Do you ever pray for your mother if she is still alive? Do you pray for healing for women like her? She goes on to say how great her life is. A husband and 3 grandchildren, and that if she was aborted they wouldn't be here. It's all GOD's plan if you just follow him.
Omgosh!!! Laura what is wrong with you? I think those chemicals may have seeped into your brain. They wouldn't be here? They and everyone else on this planet wouldn't be here if such and such hadn't happened. And no. It isn't GOD's plan for rape to happen to ANYONE. She even freakin says it with a smile on her face!!
At the end it says that all life is valuable and worthy of legal protection, even in cases of rape and incest. That rape victims need real help and not abortion. What rape victims need is for nosy demogoges such as yourself butting out of their lives and letting them make decisions for their own personal healing journey. Yours isn't help. It is coercion at best and assault at worst.
Rebecca Kiessling Take 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNpRlczGHOw
A RESPONSE:
(When speaking about teh treatment towards her by her Jewish classmates)
" My classmates would remind me as I knew that I wasn't really one of them. And they called me names. And I felt like I was outside of GOD's grace, outside of GOD's favor. And if I could just meet this birth family I could find out where I fit into this world."
My Response:
This explains alot. It was the setup for what happened after she found out the details of her conception. After she learned of her conception, her first thought was concerning her own self worth. Her childhood pretty much cemented in her mind that she was worthless.
(Announcer Speaking)
" She decided to find out who her birthparents were and why they put her up for adoption.'
My Response:
I find it also telling even after her mom was denied a legal abortion, she didn't keep her. My guess is because it would have been too painful. That thought is somewhat skimmed over in this video.
(When asking the caseworker about the lack of info about her birthfather)
" And so I asked her was my mom raped? And she said yeah I didn't want to tell you."
My Response;
One can still see the devastation in Rebecca's face when telling this. It is quite evident this still bothers her and that she is motivated by her lack of self worth.
( When speaking of her father)
" She filled me in on some pretty horrific details that I was totally unequipped to hear."
My Response:
How awful.
( Announcer)
" After that, Rebecca's self image was even worse than before."
My Response:
It is telling that her self image was bad before hand.
A RESPONSE:
(When speaking about teh treatment towards her by her Jewish classmates)
" My classmates would remind me as I knew that I wasn't really one of them. And they called me names. And I felt like I was outside of GOD's grace, outside of GOD's favor. And if I could just meet this birth family I could find out where I fit into this world."
My Response:
This explains alot. It was the setup for what happened after she found out the details of her conception. After she learned of her conception, her first thought was concerning her own self worth. Her childhood pretty much cemented in her mind that she was worthless.
(Announcer Speaking)
" She decided to find out who her birthparents were and why they put her up for adoption.'
My Response:
I find it also telling even after her mom was denied a legal abortion, she didn't keep her. My guess is because it would have been too painful. That thought is somewhat skimmed over in this video.
(When asking the caseworker about the lack of info about her birthfather)
" And so I asked her was my mom raped? And she said yeah I didn't want to tell you."
My Response;
One can still see the devastation in Rebecca's face when telling this. It is quite evident this still bothers her and that she is motivated by her lack of self worth.
( When speaking of her father)
" She filled me in on some pretty horrific details that I was totally unequipped to hear."
My Response:
How awful.
( Announcer)
" After that, Rebecca's self image was even worse than before."
My Response:
It is telling that her self image was bad before hand.
Wednesday, July 27, 2011
This had to be done part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyu50HnvvDI
" they made sure abortion was illegal in Michigan NO exceptions No compromise. They are my heroes and I owe my life to them."
Yep, because heaven forbid you or anyone else would be willing to see this as a complex issue with many different facets with far reaching impacts. Heaven forbid that they be willing to contemplate that they might be doing serious damage to women like your mother and to any children resulting. And you owe your life to them? No, you owe your life to rape. And you owe your life to a rape excusing culture built on the tears of women like your mother. You owe your life to the fact that your mother was scared out of her wits and tried to survive the best way she knew how at the time. Has it also never occured to you that there are people alive today who owe their existence to the fact their mothers had access to abortion? What about THEIR right to be here.
" and that in turn is why i do the same for others."
bold faced lie. you just said halfway thru this vid that you do this because you feel worthless and you need to validate yourself. and you want to really help stop rape abortions? help stop rape.
" and then i have people tell me oh well if you had been aborted you wouldnt be here today and you wouldnt know the difference anyways."
which is true. You also wouldnt be able to do this stupid video capitalizing on your mothers rape. and seriously quit with the childish hand gestures.
" and ive explained how their logic would justify me killing them tomorrow because you wouldnt know the difference and it wouldnt matter."
oh dont freakin tell me you havent had this crap shoved back up your backside. Yes, i freakin WOULD know the difference. I am fully aware now and i have an alerted survival instanct that makes me want to keep living, unlike what you DIDNT have as an embryo. I would most likely be terrified and feel it before you killed me UNLIKE you as an embryo. I have social connections and am an integrated part of society now UNLIKE you as an embryo. I have experienced life already UNLIKE you as an embryo. I have responsibilities to this world now that I am born UNLIKE you as an embryo. It is NOT the same thing!!
PS: to anyone watching the vid: pause the vid at precisly 8:04. her face looks HILARIOUS!
" its amazing what a little logic can do."
you might want to take your own advice there einstein. Logic dictates that the world doesnt revolve around you. Logic dictates that this is a highly complex and complicated issue that cant be solved by your little ancedote.
" and the fact is there are lives here today because they were aborted."
Not the point. There are would be lives that would be in INNUMERABLE places right now if certain customs, laws, practices or accidents would have or would not have happened. Doesnt mean we can dictate legally what those circumstances should be because we need people to be in certain places. And it is worth noting there are people that are not here right now BECAUSE their moms hadnt been able to abort. Kids their moms would have had if they only had been able to have children when they wanted them and could support them. Children that would have been concieved and birthed in the gestational time frame of a current pregnancy. And do you think those lives that you speak of are sad about their fate? And who is to say that all of the pregnancies that would have been carried to term would have become pro life individuals?
" my life matters. your lives matter"
I think it would be a more truthful statement coming from you if you ommitted the your lives matter part. For that is not honestly how you feel. You have made it quite clear in this video that the lives of certain people can be subjugated for you specifically, namely your mother. My life matters? Does it matter enough that you think I should be able to control my destiny by not being an unwilling baby factory? Do the lives of the women and children who have been sentenced to lifetimes of misery and deprivation because of your oppresive dictates matter? Do the lives of women who die from illegal and unsafe abortions matter? Do the children and loved ones of those women matter? How exactly do you think my life matters? In what functional way does it matter? You dont think I should be able to control my destiny so what sthe point in having life in the first place?
" and dont let anyone tell you otherwise"
i will take you up on that advice. I wont let YOU tell ME that I should bend to the will of your existential crisis by selling my self into reproductive slavery. I wont let YOU tell ME that in order to be a compassionate person I have to stop caring and considering the needs and welfare of the wonderful women in my life who have aborted and unashamedly dont regret it or apologize for it. I wont let YOU tell ME that I should consider myself to have less of a right to self determination than a rapist. And I sure as hades wont let YOU tell ANYONE else that they should have to give up their hard won freedoms because it offends you.
" One of the greatest things I have learned is that the rapist is not my creator."
Holy crap!!!!! the expression on your face!!! You are talking about a rapist!!! Not a fun day you just had at the beach. And your MOTHERS rapist to boot. And he most DEFINETLY is your creator. He forced your conception and then he and those who enabled his continued victimization of your mother forced your birth. Your birth was caused by him. To say GOD causes rape is disgusting. And really? that is what you have learned? You didnt learn to be more compassionate? You didnt learn about rape culture and revictimization? Once again the supposed lesson you learned is all about YOU and no one else!!
" As some people would have me believe'
Who would those people be? Geneticists? Yeah i think I gonna go with the geneticists
"My value and identity are not established as being a product of rape but a child of GOD."
really? i couldnt tell by the way you are talking and behaving here. You act this entire time like it IS your whole identity. You even state that you do what you do because you feel insecure. And yes you ARE a result of rape whether you want to admit it or not. Not happy with that reality? Neither am I. Join me and millions of other who are determinated to eradicate rape so no other person has to face what you do. But of course you couldnt leave out a GOD reference while you were at it. Leave religion out of the political arena!! You want to know what the bible says about being a child of GOD? That they are supposed to be meek and not think too highly of themselves and that they are to HUMBLE themselves before GOD and man, none of which you have displayed in this video. The bible says we are to bear one anothers burdens. When is the last time you felt a burden in your heart for what your mother endured? Have you ever?
" There are no human words that could heal me from what ive been thru."
uhhhh... what did you go thru again? oh you were raped i almost forgot. wait a minute......... im sorry i made another mistake. it was your MOTHER who went thru all that. and heal you? you are looking for people to heal you? speaking of your mom, the VICTIM, she is probably the one that could really use some healing right about now.
" though my mother and father forsake me, the LORD will receive me."
wait i thought the rapist wasnt your father?
" who else is going to say that to us society? will society receive us?
wait a minute i thought your value wasnt based on your conception or what society thought of it. and you really think every person in society is out to get you because of your conception?
" my husband and I we went on to adopt FIRST (emphasis on first)"
why was it important to adopt first? what would be wrong with having a biological and then adopting? and speaking of adoption; why have any bio kids at all? why not adopt all of them? i will take this time to say i do respect that you encourage people to adopt and that you did yourself. i so wish more people would. But here is something to ponder. Could it be that you felt the need to adopt in order to feel like your adoption wasnt a complete waste since your adopted parents only adopted you and your brother after they struggled for years trying to conceive?
" and we have three biological daughters."
i hate to do this but i think it is necessary. considering the current statistics of sexual assault, one of her kids has a decent chance of being sexually assaulted. I REALLY hope that doesnt happen. not for any reason other than sexual assault is a vile crime and those little girls deserve to live free of the fear of it. There is also no doubt in my mind though that if something were to happen to one of them, she would deny them an abortion if they so desired. GOD please protect these little girls
" i closed my law practice so i could homeschool my children and also come and speak to you."
i suspect the homeschooling move on her part was to keep her children isolated and to indoctrinate them into being self imposed victims as she has taught herself to be. and you wanted to be able to come and speak to the people in the audience? once again didnt you say previously that you are secure in CHRIST and that you dont need to be validated by anyone but him?
" No more or no less than any of you."
no more than any of us? come off it. you dont really believe that. because you think people are being cruel when they show empathy for your mother or women like her.
"but yes i am GODS gift to this world."
she shakes her head when saying this. In my 25 years on this planet, I have never met a person that said that about themselves. I can say that having met at least 2 people who were clinically diagnosed as narcissists by qualified psychiatrists.
" and you are too"
why thank you. but if there is one thing i have learned growing up in a poor italian american family ( HI MOM HI DAD!!) it is that gifts can and sometimes should be returned. the apostle paul himself considered to die to be gain since it would mean being with CHRIST. if my life were to end tomorrow, or event if it had never been, the world would not have burned. Nor would it have burned if you hadnt. you are not irreplacable even though you think you are.
" i hope you know your own worth."
and I sincerely hope that someday YOU come to know your own worth since it is apparent to me from the video that you havent found it yet despite what you say. you still feel as if you are being tossed aside by society because a good portion of it wants to protect women like your mother from compulsory motherhood after a brutal assault. you STILL cannot come to accept your father is a rapist. You STILL cannot accept that your mothers life was almost destroyed.
"when you can say you are pro life without exception its like saying you get it. you all matter."
once again i thought you didnt need anyone but GOD to tell you that you matter. and who exactly do YOU think is getting the message that they dont matter by your hardline stance? oh i dont know, maybe rape victims perhaps? do their lives matter? and no, being "prolife" without exception is saying that you are too narrow minded to see any shades of grey in this complex world of hurt and pain.
" now go forth and do the same for others."
i have a suggestion for you rebecca. why dont YOU go forth and work together with me and fellow activists to end rape and assault against other people?
i will add one more bit to this piece. Rebecca. you are not a survivor. THIS is a survivor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tLK_YofnA8&feature=related
" they made sure abortion was illegal in Michigan NO exceptions No compromise. They are my heroes and I owe my life to them."
Yep, because heaven forbid you or anyone else would be willing to see this as a complex issue with many different facets with far reaching impacts. Heaven forbid that they be willing to contemplate that they might be doing serious damage to women like your mother and to any children resulting. And you owe your life to them? No, you owe your life to rape. And you owe your life to a rape excusing culture built on the tears of women like your mother. You owe your life to the fact that your mother was scared out of her wits and tried to survive the best way she knew how at the time. Has it also never occured to you that there are people alive today who owe their existence to the fact their mothers had access to abortion? What about THEIR right to be here.
" and that in turn is why i do the same for others."
bold faced lie. you just said halfway thru this vid that you do this because you feel worthless and you need to validate yourself. and you want to really help stop rape abortions? help stop rape.
" and then i have people tell me oh well if you had been aborted you wouldnt be here today and you wouldnt know the difference anyways."
which is true. You also wouldnt be able to do this stupid video capitalizing on your mothers rape. and seriously quit with the childish hand gestures.
" and ive explained how their logic would justify me killing them tomorrow because you wouldnt know the difference and it wouldnt matter."
oh dont freakin tell me you havent had this crap shoved back up your backside. Yes, i freakin WOULD know the difference. I am fully aware now and i have an alerted survival instanct that makes me want to keep living, unlike what you DIDNT have as an embryo. I would most likely be terrified and feel it before you killed me UNLIKE you as an embryo. I have social connections and am an integrated part of society now UNLIKE you as an embryo. I have experienced life already UNLIKE you as an embryo. I have responsibilities to this world now that I am born UNLIKE you as an embryo. It is NOT the same thing!!
PS: to anyone watching the vid: pause the vid at precisly 8:04. her face looks HILARIOUS!
" its amazing what a little logic can do."
you might want to take your own advice there einstein. Logic dictates that the world doesnt revolve around you. Logic dictates that this is a highly complex and complicated issue that cant be solved by your little ancedote.
" and the fact is there are lives here today because they were aborted."
Not the point. There are would be lives that would be in INNUMERABLE places right now if certain customs, laws, practices or accidents would have or would not have happened. Doesnt mean we can dictate legally what those circumstances should be because we need people to be in certain places. And it is worth noting there are people that are not here right now BECAUSE their moms hadnt been able to abort. Kids their moms would have had if they only had been able to have children when they wanted them and could support them. Children that would have been concieved and birthed in the gestational time frame of a current pregnancy. And do you think those lives that you speak of are sad about their fate? And who is to say that all of the pregnancies that would have been carried to term would have become pro life individuals?
" my life matters. your lives matter"
I think it would be a more truthful statement coming from you if you ommitted the your lives matter part. For that is not honestly how you feel. You have made it quite clear in this video that the lives of certain people can be subjugated for you specifically, namely your mother. My life matters? Does it matter enough that you think I should be able to control my destiny by not being an unwilling baby factory? Do the lives of the women and children who have been sentenced to lifetimes of misery and deprivation because of your oppresive dictates matter? Do the lives of women who die from illegal and unsafe abortions matter? Do the children and loved ones of those women matter? How exactly do you think my life matters? In what functional way does it matter? You dont think I should be able to control my destiny so what sthe point in having life in the first place?
" and dont let anyone tell you otherwise"
i will take you up on that advice. I wont let YOU tell ME that I should bend to the will of your existential crisis by selling my self into reproductive slavery. I wont let YOU tell ME that in order to be a compassionate person I have to stop caring and considering the needs and welfare of the wonderful women in my life who have aborted and unashamedly dont regret it or apologize for it. I wont let YOU tell ME that I should consider myself to have less of a right to self determination than a rapist. And I sure as hades wont let YOU tell ANYONE else that they should have to give up their hard won freedoms because it offends you.
" One of the greatest things I have learned is that the rapist is not my creator."
Holy crap!!!!! the expression on your face!!! You are talking about a rapist!!! Not a fun day you just had at the beach. And your MOTHERS rapist to boot. And he most DEFINETLY is your creator. He forced your conception and then he and those who enabled his continued victimization of your mother forced your birth. Your birth was caused by him. To say GOD causes rape is disgusting. And really? that is what you have learned? You didnt learn to be more compassionate? You didnt learn about rape culture and revictimization? Once again the supposed lesson you learned is all about YOU and no one else!!
" As some people would have me believe'
Who would those people be? Geneticists? Yeah i think I gonna go with the geneticists
"My value and identity are not established as being a product of rape but a child of GOD."
really? i couldnt tell by the way you are talking and behaving here. You act this entire time like it IS your whole identity. You even state that you do what you do because you feel insecure. And yes you ARE a result of rape whether you want to admit it or not. Not happy with that reality? Neither am I. Join me and millions of other who are determinated to eradicate rape so no other person has to face what you do. But of course you couldnt leave out a GOD reference while you were at it. Leave religion out of the political arena!! You want to know what the bible says about being a child of GOD? That they are supposed to be meek and not think too highly of themselves and that they are to HUMBLE themselves before GOD and man, none of which you have displayed in this video. The bible says we are to bear one anothers burdens. When is the last time you felt a burden in your heart for what your mother endured? Have you ever?
" There are no human words that could heal me from what ive been thru."
uhhhh... what did you go thru again? oh you were raped i almost forgot. wait a minute......... im sorry i made another mistake. it was your MOTHER who went thru all that. and heal you? you are looking for people to heal you? speaking of your mom, the VICTIM, she is probably the one that could really use some healing right about now.
" though my mother and father forsake me, the LORD will receive me."
wait i thought the rapist wasnt your father?
" who else is going to say that to us society? will society receive us?
wait a minute i thought your value wasnt based on your conception or what society thought of it. and you really think every person in society is out to get you because of your conception?
" my husband and I we went on to adopt FIRST (emphasis on first)"
why was it important to adopt first? what would be wrong with having a biological and then adopting? and speaking of adoption; why have any bio kids at all? why not adopt all of them? i will take this time to say i do respect that you encourage people to adopt and that you did yourself. i so wish more people would. But here is something to ponder. Could it be that you felt the need to adopt in order to feel like your adoption wasnt a complete waste since your adopted parents only adopted you and your brother after they struggled for years trying to conceive?
" and we have three biological daughters."
i hate to do this but i think it is necessary. considering the current statistics of sexual assault, one of her kids has a decent chance of being sexually assaulted. I REALLY hope that doesnt happen. not for any reason other than sexual assault is a vile crime and those little girls deserve to live free of the fear of it. There is also no doubt in my mind though that if something were to happen to one of them, she would deny them an abortion if they so desired. GOD please protect these little girls
" i closed my law practice so i could homeschool my children and also come and speak to you."
i suspect the homeschooling move on her part was to keep her children isolated and to indoctrinate them into being self imposed victims as she has taught herself to be. and you wanted to be able to come and speak to the people in the audience? once again didnt you say previously that you are secure in CHRIST and that you dont need to be validated by anyone but him?
" No more or no less than any of you."
no more than any of us? come off it. you dont really believe that. because you think people are being cruel when they show empathy for your mother or women like her.
"but yes i am GODS gift to this world."
she shakes her head when saying this. In my 25 years on this planet, I have never met a person that said that about themselves. I can say that having met at least 2 people who were clinically diagnosed as narcissists by qualified psychiatrists.
" and you are too"
why thank you. but if there is one thing i have learned growing up in a poor italian american family ( HI MOM HI DAD!!) it is that gifts can and sometimes should be returned. the apostle paul himself considered to die to be gain since it would mean being with CHRIST. if my life were to end tomorrow, or event if it had never been, the world would not have burned. Nor would it have burned if you hadnt. you are not irreplacable even though you think you are.
" i hope you know your own worth."
and I sincerely hope that someday YOU come to know your own worth since it is apparent to me from the video that you havent found it yet despite what you say. you still feel as if you are being tossed aside by society because a good portion of it wants to protect women like your mother from compulsory motherhood after a brutal assault. you STILL cannot come to accept your father is a rapist. You STILL cannot accept that your mothers life was almost destroyed.
"when you can say you are pro life without exception its like saying you get it. you all matter."
once again i thought you didnt need anyone but GOD to tell you that you matter. and who exactly do YOU think is getting the message that they dont matter by your hardline stance? oh i dont know, maybe rape victims perhaps? do their lives matter? and no, being "prolife" without exception is saying that you are too narrow minded to see any shades of grey in this complex world of hurt and pain.
" now go forth and do the same for others."
i have a suggestion for you rebecca. why dont YOU go forth and work together with me and fellow activists to end rape and assault against other people?
i will add one more bit to this piece. Rebecca. you are not a survivor. THIS is a survivor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tLK_YofnA8&feature=related
Tuesday, July 26, 2011
This had to be done part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyu50HnvvDI
My continued critique of this video
" Then she got hooked up with a more expensive abortionist once again thru the rape counselor that the police referred her to."
It is noteworthy that it was the rape counselor that tried to help your mom abort. Considering the police themselves recommended that counselor, chances are they were legite. They are professionals that deal with victims on a daily basis and know what their needs are. Who do you think should be the decider over the laws regarding rape abortions? The professional trained to meet the needs of trauma survivors or someone with an existential crisis ( guess which one I think you are?)
" She said there were no pregnancy centers back then but if there had been she would have gone."
Everyone please check out the organization www.cpcwatch.org to learn more about these deceptive clinics that try to coerce and sometimes harrass women out of abortion care. I dont doubt her mom probably would have gone. She was in a highly vulnerable state and was just looking for any help available. I think it is also noteworthy that there WERENT pregnancy centers back then. Why? Crisis pregnancies existed back then. Where were you people for those ladies back then? Considering abortion wasnt even a legal option I would think women would need even more help since having a child was there only option. Or could it be because pregnancy centers arnt about trying to help women but are there just to keep women from having abortions and nothing else? And who is to say that even if your mom had gone to a pregnancy center that she would have changed her mind about the abortion anyway? You want to know what else there werent of back then? Rape shield laws that kept victims personal history from being used against them in court when they testified against their perps. Rape victims were treated like garbage by the legal system and still commonly are. Society as a whole demeaned and dehumanized women who were raped which is why they denied your mother reproductive choice after her attack.
" I think it is just so pathetic that people would hear me describe the conditions of my moms abortionist and say Its just so awful that your mother had to go thru that in order to be able to abort you."
This pretty much cements my prior theory that the reason Rebecca doesnt go into detail about her mothers rape is because to do so would garner empathy for her mother. Even when telling people the circumstances of her mothers would be back alley abortion, she IMMEDIATLY turns it into HER tall of woe by attemtping to redirect any concern the listener has for her mother plight into how it offends HER sensibilities. What is pathetic is that your mother was raped. What is pathetic is that pregnancy can result from it. What is pathetic is that we live in a world where people have to make such harsh choices in the first place. THAT is what is truly pathetic. And yes it absolutely IS awful that your mother was that desperate. It absolutely IS awful that she was put into such a terrible circumstance where she could have been severly injured if not killed.
" Like thats compassionate? I know in there minds they think they are being compassionate but that is pretty cold hearted from where i stand dont you think because that is my life they are talking about."
During this entire spiel she uses exaggered and hyperbolic tones, which is incredibly irritating. Where you stand? You stand nowhere because you are not the one who endured anything terrible nor could you have. It is cold hearted to you because in YOUR mind YOU think you are being compassionate.... towards yourself. I dont believe for a minute that you see your mom as the real victim of injustice in your narrative because in this entire video you skim over her well being except at the end to say " she is alright". And yes, it IS compassionate to say those back alley conditions are awful. It is compassionate towards the victim, and guess what, the victim aint you. Its your life were talking about? No your life hadnt started in any practical way. Your mothers was a life in progress that was brutally intercepted and deserved to be meanded in any way possible, including thru abortion.
" She's ok life went on for her, but I would have been killed thru a brutal abortion."
What if life handt gone on for her? What if her life had remained shattered like INNUMERABLE women thruout history who were denied reproductive choice? What if she had committed suicide? What then? Is your birth still so monumentously important? You know who was almost brutally killed? Your mother, the VICTIM. She was almost brutally killed by your father and then 2 more times by back alley thugs. And considering a fetus doesnt feel pain until well into the second trimester, you wouldnt have endured ANYTHING horrible if she had decided to go thru it.
" I may not look the same as when I was 4 years old or 4 days old yet in my mothers womb but that was still me."
You know what REALLY wasnt the same as when you were an embryo and when you were 4 days old? Embryonically, you had no awareness, nerves, senses, survival instinct, autonomous existence, or integrated social network or societal function.
" This abortion doctor had a filthy mouth as many of them do."
You should really come to do abortion clinic escorting for termination patients with me sometime if you want to know what filthy language is. Talk to any pro choice worker and they will tell you the harrassing phone calls they get. And how the heck do you know most doctors have filthy mouths?
" For some people their near death experience is waking up out of a coma to find out they were almost killed in an automobile accident."
Which is again a complete strawman to your situation since no one is trying to legalize or illegalize automobile accidents. Nor are people who are in comas from automobile accidents infringing on the rights of other people like your forced birth did. And how do you know all people that were in a coma consider themselves to have been near death? Many people consider near death to be when you "see a bright light" or a possible vision of the afterlife and come back to tell about it. NOTHING like your situation. People who wake up from comas also had prior life experience to reflect back on to TRULY feel like they survived something, unlike you.
" But for me this is my near death experience>"
Are you telling me that every single almost abortion that resulted in a life birth ( I have read other testimonials) feels the way you do? I know for a fact they dont. As I just said some dont feel that way. The only ones i have read that do are the insecure pitty pots or religious zealots who believe their birth was destined above all else. I myself was stillborn. The doctors had to revive me after the umbilical cord strangled me. Do I consider that a near death experience? Heck no!! I have no memory of it.
" People will say well you were just lucky. I wasnt lucky, I was protected."
You know who wasnt protected and who REALLY could have used some. Your mother, the VICTIM. If you are still reading this, you will notice that I keep highliting the word victim when describing her mother. The reason is because she is the true victim and not Rebecca who has imposed victimhood on herself. Rebecca desperately tries to take her mothers tale and make herself out to be the victim. I wont allow her to. I am going to keep pointing out that she is NOT the victim here.
" And prolife hereos who didnt even know of my exact existence recognized that mind was a life worth saving."
What they didnt acknowledge was the rights of women to be equal members of society by being able to control their own fertility. What they didnt acknowledge was the motivations of rape. That it is a crime of wanting to have total power over someone else's body and life, which is what you are advocating by forcing the victims to have babies. And respect for life didnt cause your birth. Rape culture did. Mysoginistic mindsets of rape victims being damaged goods that didnt deserve to regain a sense of control over their destinies led to them enacting draconian measures that hurt and continue to hurt countless women around the globe.
My continued critique of this video
" Then she got hooked up with a more expensive abortionist once again thru the rape counselor that the police referred her to."
It is noteworthy that it was the rape counselor that tried to help your mom abort. Considering the police themselves recommended that counselor, chances are they were legite. They are professionals that deal with victims on a daily basis and know what their needs are. Who do you think should be the decider over the laws regarding rape abortions? The professional trained to meet the needs of trauma survivors or someone with an existential crisis ( guess which one I think you are?)
" She said there were no pregnancy centers back then but if there had been she would have gone."
Everyone please check out the organization www.cpcwatch.org to learn more about these deceptive clinics that try to coerce and sometimes harrass women out of abortion care. I dont doubt her mom probably would have gone. She was in a highly vulnerable state and was just looking for any help available. I think it is also noteworthy that there WERENT pregnancy centers back then. Why? Crisis pregnancies existed back then. Where were you people for those ladies back then? Considering abortion wasnt even a legal option I would think women would need even more help since having a child was there only option. Or could it be because pregnancy centers arnt about trying to help women but are there just to keep women from having abortions and nothing else? And who is to say that even if your mom had gone to a pregnancy center that she would have changed her mind about the abortion anyway? You want to know what else there werent of back then? Rape shield laws that kept victims personal history from being used against them in court when they testified against their perps. Rape victims were treated like garbage by the legal system and still commonly are. Society as a whole demeaned and dehumanized women who were raped which is why they denied your mother reproductive choice after her attack.
" I think it is just so pathetic that people would hear me describe the conditions of my moms abortionist and say Its just so awful that your mother had to go thru that in order to be able to abort you."
This pretty much cements my prior theory that the reason Rebecca doesnt go into detail about her mothers rape is because to do so would garner empathy for her mother. Even when telling people the circumstances of her mothers would be back alley abortion, she IMMEDIATLY turns it into HER tall of woe by attemtping to redirect any concern the listener has for her mother plight into how it offends HER sensibilities. What is pathetic is that your mother was raped. What is pathetic is that pregnancy can result from it. What is pathetic is that we live in a world where people have to make such harsh choices in the first place. THAT is what is truly pathetic. And yes it absolutely IS awful that your mother was that desperate. It absolutely IS awful that she was put into such a terrible circumstance where she could have been severly injured if not killed.
" Like thats compassionate? I know in there minds they think they are being compassionate but that is pretty cold hearted from where i stand dont you think because that is my life they are talking about."
During this entire spiel she uses exaggered and hyperbolic tones, which is incredibly irritating. Where you stand? You stand nowhere because you are not the one who endured anything terrible nor could you have. It is cold hearted to you because in YOUR mind YOU think you are being compassionate.... towards yourself. I dont believe for a minute that you see your mom as the real victim of injustice in your narrative because in this entire video you skim over her well being except at the end to say " she is alright". And yes, it IS compassionate to say those back alley conditions are awful. It is compassionate towards the victim, and guess what, the victim aint you. Its your life were talking about? No your life hadnt started in any practical way. Your mothers was a life in progress that was brutally intercepted and deserved to be meanded in any way possible, including thru abortion.
" She's ok life went on for her, but I would have been killed thru a brutal abortion."
What if life handt gone on for her? What if her life had remained shattered like INNUMERABLE women thruout history who were denied reproductive choice? What if she had committed suicide? What then? Is your birth still so monumentously important? You know who was almost brutally killed? Your mother, the VICTIM. She was almost brutally killed by your father and then 2 more times by back alley thugs. And considering a fetus doesnt feel pain until well into the second trimester, you wouldnt have endured ANYTHING horrible if she had decided to go thru it.
" I may not look the same as when I was 4 years old or 4 days old yet in my mothers womb but that was still me."
You know what REALLY wasnt the same as when you were an embryo and when you were 4 days old? Embryonically, you had no awareness, nerves, senses, survival instinct, autonomous existence, or integrated social network or societal function.
" This abortion doctor had a filthy mouth as many of them do."
You should really come to do abortion clinic escorting for termination patients with me sometime if you want to know what filthy language is. Talk to any pro choice worker and they will tell you the harrassing phone calls they get. And how the heck do you know most doctors have filthy mouths?
" For some people their near death experience is waking up out of a coma to find out they were almost killed in an automobile accident."
Which is again a complete strawman to your situation since no one is trying to legalize or illegalize automobile accidents. Nor are people who are in comas from automobile accidents infringing on the rights of other people like your forced birth did. And how do you know all people that were in a coma consider themselves to have been near death? Many people consider near death to be when you "see a bright light" or a possible vision of the afterlife and come back to tell about it. NOTHING like your situation. People who wake up from comas also had prior life experience to reflect back on to TRULY feel like they survived something, unlike you.
" But for me this is my near death experience>"
Are you telling me that every single almost abortion that resulted in a life birth ( I have read other testimonials) feels the way you do? I know for a fact they dont. As I just said some dont feel that way. The only ones i have read that do are the insecure pitty pots or religious zealots who believe their birth was destined above all else. I myself was stillborn. The doctors had to revive me after the umbilical cord strangled me. Do I consider that a near death experience? Heck no!! I have no memory of it.
" People will say well you were just lucky. I wasnt lucky, I was protected."
You know who wasnt protected and who REALLY could have used some. Your mother, the VICTIM. If you are still reading this, you will notice that I keep highliting the word victim when describing her mother. The reason is because she is the true victim and not Rebecca who has imposed victimhood on herself. Rebecca desperately tries to take her mothers tale and make herself out to be the victim. I wont allow her to. I am going to keep pointing out that she is NOT the victim here.
" And prolife hereos who didnt even know of my exact existence recognized that mind was a life worth saving."
What they didnt acknowledge was the rights of women to be equal members of society by being able to control their own fertility. What they didnt acknowledge was the motivations of rape. That it is a crime of wanting to have total power over someone else's body and life, which is what you are advocating by forcing the victims to have babies. And respect for life didnt cause your birth. Rape culture did. Mysoginistic mindsets of rape victims being damaged goods that didnt deserve to regain a sense of control over their destinies led to them enacting draconian measures that hurt and continue to hurt countless women around the globe.
This had to be done
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyu50HnvvDI
My response to this video
" I was adopted nearly from birth and like many adoptees for years I dreamed of being able to meet my birth mother."
Question: Do you support privacy rights for birthmothers that dont want to be contacted by the children they relinquish? There was a case a few years ago of a woman who was forced to birth a child after rape ( sound familiar?) who was unwantedly contacted by the child she relinquished. She is actually now in the process of suing the state for reperations in emotional harm. What is your plan to prevent such occurances from happening in your world of forced birth for victims of sex crimes? And what about the men who sire these children? Most rapes are aquintance rapes. It is actually a big issue in many states that men try to get custody or get visitation with the children they impregnanted their victims with due to many of these women choosing to give birth ( a decision i respect them to be able to make). And do you support laws that increase penalties for sex offenders if a pregnancy ensues? Do you think there should be extra compensation for the victims?
" My papers had everything you could think of describing my mother. It even included my half brother and half sister who were 11 and 13 at the time of my birth."
Quick question. Considering your mother went to 2 back alley abortionist who very well could have killed her, your siblings came dangerously close to being orphaned. Is that ok with you? How important do you consider your birth to be? The UN estimates that globally 250,000 children are orphaned yearsly by unsafe and illegal abortion.
" And I was just devastated"
You say that with a smile on your face
" I remember feeling so ugly and so unwanted thinking who could ever love me."
Exactly. This is all about your bruised ego and your need to feel loved and wanted. That is why you project your "story" onto every pregnant woman in the world.
" And of course I thought about the issue of abortion because that's what you always hear about right?"
Always hear about? Where when do you always hear about this? If you are talking about the fact that many people lobby for abortion rights for rape victims or support such efforts is because it is a real issue affecting many people, 13000 yearly in this country in fact. and did you ever consider that there might be a really good reason you "always hear about it?" Like the fact that it is a real need and vital service to these victims? And I find it rather disturbing that the issue of abortion was your FIRST thought on hearing of your conception. Really? You didn't think "omgosh that is horrible, omgosh i wasnt expecting that, omgosh i wonder what exactly happened, omgosh i wonder how my mother is today?" Abortion was THE FIRST THING? It just goes to show how secure you are in yourself that you hear tragic news and IMMEDIATElY your first response is about your own existence and need to feel validated.
" And it was like I could hear the echoes of all those people who would say EXCEPT IN CASES OF RAPE or ESPECIALLY IN CASES OF RAPE"
she says these phrases in exaggerated hyperbolic tones. I HIGHLY doubt the original sayers were speaking in that demeanor. She uses this for effect and to make the opponent seem wrong when in fact she is using childish tactics over a very serious subject.
" And these people were talking about me, about my life. And I felt like I had at least half the world against me."
This quote of hers pretty much sums it up. She has completely put her self worth on the opinions of what others think of her and that is why she does what she does. Not to save the unborn, but to save herself. Save herself from feeling like a loser. It is all about her. No one and nothing else. Half the world against you? I am not against YOU personally. I do not wish you harm or a miserable life. You are doing a great job on your own without my help. You know who REALLY had half the world against her? Your mother, the VICTIM. She was victimized twice, once by your father and again by a sexist male dominated society that saw HER as disposable since she must have brought it on herself and rape after all isnt that big a deal.
" That there are all these people who dont even know me who are standing in judgement of my life."
We stand in judgement of your narcissistic worldview that your birth was inevitable and had to happen no matter the cost to the victim ie; YOUR MOTHER
YOU stand in judgement of women like your mother who are just trying to regain some sense of normalcy and control over their lives after having it brutally ripped from them by monsters. YOU stand in judgement of empathetic people who have seen the pain and hurt rape causes and are willing to be compassionate and sensitive to THEIR needs. Since you were an embryo at the time your mother was going to abort, I wonder exactly how I or anyone else COULD have gotten to know you. Are you accusing us of standing in judgement of you in this context or now that you are born?
" So quick to dismiss it just because of how I was conceived."
JUST because of how I was conceived? JUST?! It wasnt a little "just" lady!!! It was a brutal assault that could have killed your mom!! And quick to dismiss? Right like lawmakers who decide on the legality of abortion are all whimsical fools who dont think things thru or give the complexity of this issue any thought. They just immediately see a rape case and think "worthless". Although I suspect that is how you perceive it. And lots of people havent arrived at the conclusion that rape victims should be able to obtain abortion care on a whim. Considering 1 in 6 American women will be sexually assault and 1 in 5 worlwide, it is an issue that tragically has touched many people. For the women it hasnt personally happened to, the threat is always constant and there. It is a reality people live with so when they form opinions such as this it is often with imput from their real life experiences.
" And now I felt like I was going to have to justify my own existence."
BINGO!!!! DING !!! DING!!! DING!!! We have a winner. You are trying to invalidate your self perceived worthless! That is why you do what you do. Not to save babies. You really want to validate your existence? Work towards ending rape. THAT would really show your commitment to bettering the world.
" I also wanted to meet my birthmother. To hear that maybe there was some mistake. That this wasnt how I was conceived."
Did it occur to you even ONCE beforehand that maybe she wouldnt want to meet YOU? That meeting you would harm her psychologically? Or are you really that naive?
" I received my birth name which was Judy Ann Miracle so I was a miralce baby."
That statement alone makes me want to barf. There was NOTHING miraculous about your conception or birth. It was all the result of a crazed power hungry man.
" My birthmother filled me in on some pretty horrific details that I was not equipped to hear."
Having watched many of your other videos and having read your posts, I have yet to hear you go into detail about the specifics. I am curious. I can only think of 3 reasons why. One, your birthmother asked you not to which if the case I totally understand and respect you for not saying. Two, you are embarrased by them which is odd considering you make a living off of telling about her rape. Or three to give away the graphicness of it would garner more empathy for your mother's situation, something you desperately try to not do. Also, you werent equipped to hear? You didnt prepare yourself beforehand? You knew she was raped and that from her police report she didnt seem to know the guy well if at all so what made you think it wouldnt be graphic? What do you think rape let alone stranger rape is like?
" Single mom heading to the grocery store at night right down the street from her home."
I want to take a quick minute to point out to anyone reading this that grocery store parking lots ACTUALLY ARE one of the most common if not the most common places for abductions. If you go to the store, please go during daylight hours and bring a friend. She was probably going to the grocery store to get food for her children, because she was responsible for THEIR wellbeing.
" She described in graphic detail to me how he brutally raped her."
Can't imagine. dont want to
" That was so hard to hear. For several reasons."
She then goes on to say the reasons. I find it VERY interesting that the VERY FIRST reasons she states is because SHE felt like garbage. Not that she felt bad for her mother. Not that she wondered how anyone could be so cruel. Not wondering if he was caught. Not anger towards her father. Not wondering if her mother is NOW alright. It's all about HER.
" I felt like garbage. Because of people saying my life was like garbage. That I was disposable."
Would you like a brain for that strawman? I got any extra ticket to OZ i havent cashed in yet. You want to know who REALLY was disposed of? Your mother, the VICTIM. She was victimized by your father and then her needs were once again disposed of because society deemed her to have the ultimate purpose of being a mother and not much else.
" And then I had to realize that my biological father was a really bad man."
I got an extra thessauras I can send to you. The english language is so rich. PLEASE learn some of it! I can think of many more appropriate words than bad to describe the monster you speak of. You call him your biological father. You later say that he isnt your father but GOD is. Please make up your mind.
" to hear that she had been violated like this really pained me."
Just imagine how much it all pained HER. I am also curious. Which violation exactly pained you? The violation of her original rape or the second victimization imposed on her by society when she was forced to have a child by a criminal? Or do you not count the second one as being in violation of her rights?
" She sent me a beautiful letter."
She then goes on to read a letter her birthmom sent her telling her not to feel sad and that she is loved. I am glad her birthmother made it thru her trauma and was able to find goodness in all of it. I am also glad she has grown to love Rebecca and that the two of them have a good relationship. Joann ( her bmom) sounds like an amazing woman. It is worth noting though that even though manytimes we can look back on tragedies that have had positive outcomes in the longrun, it doesnt mean that we necessarily wish those tragedies had ever occured or that if given the chance we wouldnt undo them. We learn to live with what we have and reap joy whenever we can.
" When I met her I asked her about abortion because I still needed to know."
I am really curious as to your motivation for wanting to know. Was it to get arsenal against people who are pro choice? Did you even rehearse in your head how you would handle hearing news you didnt like, if you even could handle it? Once again, did you even FOR ONCE stop and think that asking such a personal and intimate question might end up hurting her? Since you were born in 1969, you knew full well that abortion had not been legal yet. What were you digging at? You would have had to have known that if she did go for an abortion it would have had to have been an illegal one. Were you asking to make her feel guilty? To incriminate her? What exactly?
" She told me that if it had been legal in Michigan, she would have aborted me."
I don't know too many women that would tell children that, but i guess she is one of them.
"She actually did go to 2 back alley abortionists. The first one is the kind you typically hear about as to why it should be safe and legal to abort me"
She puts the phrase safe and legal in airquote, like it is just something we pro choicers added for flavor. That little phrase is a serious one and carries significant repurcussions. 32,000 women die from unsafe abortion every year and 5 million more are injured. And abort you? You word it to make it sound like people have a vendetta against YOU specifically. And yes, the conditions you state do indeed sound horrific. Your mother could very well have died.
" And those back alley conditions and the fact that it was illegal caused her to back out as it did for most women."
Most women? Do you have a survey from the 60's to back that statement up? And what of the ones who dont and didnt back out? What about them? Do they matter at all in your world view? Your mother was scared. She backed out probably because she had two children already that she knew she had to stick around for. I so admire her courage to get thru all of that. Notice I said she had 2 children to worry about not 3. She owed you NOTHING as an embryo. No more than my mom owed me anything.
My response to this video
" I was adopted nearly from birth and like many adoptees for years I dreamed of being able to meet my birth mother."
Question: Do you support privacy rights for birthmothers that dont want to be contacted by the children they relinquish? There was a case a few years ago of a woman who was forced to birth a child after rape ( sound familiar?) who was unwantedly contacted by the child she relinquished. She is actually now in the process of suing the state for reperations in emotional harm. What is your plan to prevent such occurances from happening in your world of forced birth for victims of sex crimes? And what about the men who sire these children? Most rapes are aquintance rapes. It is actually a big issue in many states that men try to get custody or get visitation with the children they impregnanted their victims with due to many of these women choosing to give birth ( a decision i respect them to be able to make). And do you support laws that increase penalties for sex offenders if a pregnancy ensues? Do you think there should be extra compensation for the victims?
" My papers had everything you could think of describing my mother. It even included my half brother and half sister who were 11 and 13 at the time of my birth."
Quick question. Considering your mother went to 2 back alley abortionist who very well could have killed her, your siblings came dangerously close to being orphaned. Is that ok with you? How important do you consider your birth to be? The UN estimates that globally 250,000 children are orphaned yearsly by unsafe and illegal abortion.
" And I was just devastated"
You say that with a smile on your face
" I remember feeling so ugly and so unwanted thinking who could ever love me."
Exactly. This is all about your bruised ego and your need to feel loved and wanted. That is why you project your "story" onto every pregnant woman in the world.
" And of course I thought about the issue of abortion because that's what you always hear about right?"
Always hear about? Where when do you always hear about this? If you are talking about the fact that many people lobby for abortion rights for rape victims or support such efforts is because it is a real issue affecting many people, 13000 yearly in this country in fact. and did you ever consider that there might be a really good reason you "always hear about it?" Like the fact that it is a real need and vital service to these victims? And I find it rather disturbing that the issue of abortion was your FIRST thought on hearing of your conception. Really? You didn't think "omgosh that is horrible, omgosh i wasnt expecting that, omgosh i wonder what exactly happened, omgosh i wonder how my mother is today?" Abortion was THE FIRST THING? It just goes to show how secure you are in yourself that you hear tragic news and IMMEDIATElY your first response is about your own existence and need to feel validated.
" And it was like I could hear the echoes of all those people who would say EXCEPT IN CASES OF RAPE or ESPECIALLY IN CASES OF RAPE"
she says these phrases in exaggerated hyperbolic tones. I HIGHLY doubt the original sayers were speaking in that demeanor. She uses this for effect and to make the opponent seem wrong when in fact she is using childish tactics over a very serious subject.
" And these people were talking about me, about my life. And I felt like I had at least half the world against me."
This quote of hers pretty much sums it up. She has completely put her self worth on the opinions of what others think of her and that is why she does what she does. Not to save the unborn, but to save herself. Save herself from feeling like a loser. It is all about her. No one and nothing else. Half the world against you? I am not against YOU personally. I do not wish you harm or a miserable life. You are doing a great job on your own without my help. You know who REALLY had half the world against her? Your mother, the VICTIM. She was victimized twice, once by your father and again by a sexist male dominated society that saw HER as disposable since she must have brought it on herself and rape after all isnt that big a deal.
" That there are all these people who dont even know me who are standing in judgement of my life."
We stand in judgement of your narcissistic worldview that your birth was inevitable and had to happen no matter the cost to the victim ie; YOUR MOTHER
YOU stand in judgement of women like your mother who are just trying to regain some sense of normalcy and control over their lives after having it brutally ripped from them by monsters. YOU stand in judgement of empathetic people who have seen the pain and hurt rape causes and are willing to be compassionate and sensitive to THEIR needs. Since you were an embryo at the time your mother was going to abort, I wonder exactly how I or anyone else COULD have gotten to know you. Are you accusing us of standing in judgement of you in this context or now that you are born?
" So quick to dismiss it just because of how I was conceived."
JUST because of how I was conceived? JUST?! It wasnt a little "just" lady!!! It was a brutal assault that could have killed your mom!! And quick to dismiss? Right like lawmakers who decide on the legality of abortion are all whimsical fools who dont think things thru or give the complexity of this issue any thought. They just immediately see a rape case and think "worthless". Although I suspect that is how you perceive it. And lots of people havent arrived at the conclusion that rape victims should be able to obtain abortion care on a whim. Considering 1 in 6 American women will be sexually assault and 1 in 5 worlwide, it is an issue that tragically has touched many people. For the women it hasnt personally happened to, the threat is always constant and there. It is a reality people live with so when they form opinions such as this it is often with imput from their real life experiences.
" And now I felt like I was going to have to justify my own existence."
BINGO!!!! DING !!! DING!!! DING!!! We have a winner. You are trying to invalidate your self perceived worthless! That is why you do what you do. Not to save babies. You really want to validate your existence? Work towards ending rape. THAT would really show your commitment to bettering the world.
" I also wanted to meet my birthmother. To hear that maybe there was some mistake. That this wasnt how I was conceived."
Did it occur to you even ONCE beforehand that maybe she wouldnt want to meet YOU? That meeting you would harm her psychologically? Or are you really that naive?
" I received my birth name which was Judy Ann Miracle so I was a miralce baby."
That statement alone makes me want to barf. There was NOTHING miraculous about your conception or birth. It was all the result of a crazed power hungry man.
" My birthmother filled me in on some pretty horrific details that I was not equipped to hear."
Having watched many of your other videos and having read your posts, I have yet to hear you go into detail about the specifics. I am curious. I can only think of 3 reasons why. One, your birthmother asked you not to which if the case I totally understand and respect you for not saying. Two, you are embarrased by them which is odd considering you make a living off of telling about her rape. Or three to give away the graphicness of it would garner more empathy for your mother's situation, something you desperately try to not do. Also, you werent equipped to hear? You didnt prepare yourself beforehand? You knew she was raped and that from her police report she didnt seem to know the guy well if at all so what made you think it wouldnt be graphic? What do you think rape let alone stranger rape is like?
" Single mom heading to the grocery store at night right down the street from her home."
I want to take a quick minute to point out to anyone reading this that grocery store parking lots ACTUALLY ARE one of the most common if not the most common places for abductions. If you go to the store, please go during daylight hours and bring a friend. She was probably going to the grocery store to get food for her children, because she was responsible for THEIR wellbeing.
" She described in graphic detail to me how he brutally raped her."
Can't imagine. dont want to
" That was so hard to hear. For several reasons."
She then goes on to say the reasons. I find it VERY interesting that the VERY FIRST reasons she states is because SHE felt like garbage. Not that she felt bad for her mother. Not that she wondered how anyone could be so cruel. Not wondering if he was caught. Not anger towards her father. Not wondering if her mother is NOW alright. It's all about HER.
" I felt like garbage. Because of people saying my life was like garbage. That I was disposable."
Would you like a brain for that strawman? I got any extra ticket to OZ i havent cashed in yet. You want to know who REALLY was disposed of? Your mother, the VICTIM. She was victimized by your father and then her needs were once again disposed of because society deemed her to have the ultimate purpose of being a mother and not much else.
" And then I had to realize that my biological father was a really bad man."
I got an extra thessauras I can send to you. The english language is so rich. PLEASE learn some of it! I can think of many more appropriate words than bad to describe the monster you speak of. You call him your biological father. You later say that he isnt your father but GOD is. Please make up your mind.
" to hear that she had been violated like this really pained me."
Just imagine how much it all pained HER. I am also curious. Which violation exactly pained you? The violation of her original rape or the second victimization imposed on her by society when she was forced to have a child by a criminal? Or do you not count the second one as being in violation of her rights?
" She sent me a beautiful letter."
She then goes on to read a letter her birthmom sent her telling her not to feel sad and that she is loved. I am glad her birthmother made it thru her trauma and was able to find goodness in all of it. I am also glad she has grown to love Rebecca and that the two of them have a good relationship. Joann ( her bmom) sounds like an amazing woman. It is worth noting though that even though manytimes we can look back on tragedies that have had positive outcomes in the longrun, it doesnt mean that we necessarily wish those tragedies had ever occured or that if given the chance we wouldnt undo them. We learn to live with what we have and reap joy whenever we can.
" When I met her I asked her about abortion because I still needed to know."
I am really curious as to your motivation for wanting to know. Was it to get arsenal against people who are pro choice? Did you even rehearse in your head how you would handle hearing news you didnt like, if you even could handle it? Once again, did you even FOR ONCE stop and think that asking such a personal and intimate question might end up hurting her? Since you were born in 1969, you knew full well that abortion had not been legal yet. What were you digging at? You would have had to have known that if she did go for an abortion it would have had to have been an illegal one. Were you asking to make her feel guilty? To incriminate her? What exactly?
" She told me that if it had been legal in Michigan, she would have aborted me."
I don't know too many women that would tell children that, but i guess she is one of them.
"She actually did go to 2 back alley abortionists. The first one is the kind you typically hear about as to why it should be safe and legal to abort me"
She puts the phrase safe and legal in airquote, like it is just something we pro choicers added for flavor. That little phrase is a serious one and carries significant repurcussions. 32,000 women die from unsafe abortion every year and 5 million more are injured. And abort you? You word it to make it sound like people have a vendetta against YOU specifically. And yes, the conditions you state do indeed sound horrific. Your mother could very well have died.
" And those back alley conditions and the fact that it was illegal caused her to back out as it did for most women."
Most women? Do you have a survey from the 60's to back that statement up? And what of the ones who dont and didnt back out? What about them? Do they matter at all in your world view? Your mother was scared. She backed out probably because she had two children already that she knew she had to stick around for. I so admire her courage to get thru all of that. Notice I said she had 2 children to worry about not 3. She owed you NOTHING as an embryo. No more than my mom owed me anything.
Tuesday, July 12, 2011
With liberty and justice for some
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/10/993147/-Update:-Oh-Dear-God,-No?via=siderec
Between the not guilty verdict in the Casey Anthony trial and the verdict of no justice for Jamie Leigh Jones, this is not turning out to be a good month for victims advocacy here in the states. If you don't know. Casey Anthony is the florida mother accused of murdering her two year old daughter Caylee. Jamie Leigh Jones was a KBR contractor in Iraq who was brutally gang raped and assaulted by coworkers overseas. She just recently lost her case against her attackers even though she was fully unconscious while asleep. In both of these cases there was compelling evidence for the guilt of those accused. Both did not lead to guilty verdicts. It has been my belief for years now that the American spirit of independance and freedom from oppression has all but been lost on the American people. The fact that even ONE child could be so brutally murdered in this country should be enough to call for national reform. The fact that thousands happen every year is unacceptable. I really don't know what it will take for us as a people to finally rise as one and demand that our government start protecting the victims of violent crimes. How many more Caylees or Jamies will it take?
Between the not guilty verdict in the Casey Anthony trial and the verdict of no justice for Jamie Leigh Jones, this is not turning out to be a good month for victims advocacy here in the states. If you don't know. Casey Anthony is the florida mother accused of murdering her two year old daughter Caylee. Jamie Leigh Jones was a KBR contractor in Iraq who was brutally gang raped and assaulted by coworkers overseas. She just recently lost her case against her attackers even though she was fully unconscious while asleep. In both of these cases there was compelling evidence for the guilt of those accused. Both did not lead to guilty verdicts. It has been my belief for years now that the American spirit of independance and freedom from oppression has all but been lost on the American people. The fact that even ONE child could be so brutally murdered in this country should be enough to call for national reform. The fact that thousands happen every year is unacceptable. I really don't know what it will take for us as a people to finally rise as one and demand that our government start protecting the victims of violent crimes. How many more Caylees or Jamies will it take?
Monday, July 4, 2011
Priests for Life? Try again
My following post will be in response to some sample letters for letters to the editor that the organization Priests for Life has on their website regarding abortions for rape victims. Here is the link
http://www.priestsforlife.org/lte/lte18.html
"First of all, it isn't as if we're talking about inseminating rape and incest victims. It is their attackers who forced them to bear children. We're just saying we shouldn't pay to kill the children in question."
First of all, we pro choicers arn't accusing you in the first place of personally inseminating these women. Strawman number one. What you ARE ultimately talking about is enacting a policy that would further the control of their rape upon them. But we will get to that in a minute. Second, you state it is their attackers that are forcing them to bear children and not you. Yeah, uh that is kinda our point. Their attackers SHOULDNT GET TO force them to bear children. The fact that they started it isn't the matter. They already forced them to have carnal knowledge. That was ENOUGH of an abuse. And by enacting legislation to subject these women to another event against their will, you ARE participating in the furtherance of the perps original violation.
"Second, and more important, is the sexism of the senator's attitude. Are women just the soil in which a man may plant his seed? Isn't it her baby too? Just because a woman has been raped doesn't mean she isn't a mother. For this senator to refer to the baby as "the rapist's child" dismisses the woman as an object. But it was seeing the woman as just an object that allowed the attack in the first place. Perhaps that is where the good senator found common ground with the rapist."
Funny how you make the remark accusing our side of seeing women as just the soil to be planted upon considering the Catholic Church's stance on contraception and sex being primarily for procreation. If ANYONE views women as soil to be fertilized it is your side. Is it her baby too? Genetics can only create a bond so much in some women. It is obvious that not all women see the children they bear as special or even something they bond with. And your use of "just because" is really showing. JUST BECAUSE she was raped? JUST BECAUSE?!? Way to triviliaze the subject of rape thru wording. And if a woman is forced to have a baby created thru violence against her will, it IS the rapist's child. The child was born from his will. He forced her to get pregant and than forced her to have it. That birth was totally his doing and the doing of archaic laws that allow him to do it. Yes, it WAS seeing that woman as an object that lead to her being victimized in the first place. And it is seeing her as an object that allows YOUR side to turn her into an object AGAIN by forcing her to have a baby against her will. It is YOUR side good sir that is displaying the power dynamic of the rapist, not ours.
I plan on responding to more letters of this site in the future. Stay tuned.
http://www.priestsforlife.org/lte/lte18.html
"First of all, it isn't as if we're talking about inseminating rape and incest victims. It is their attackers who forced them to bear children. We're just saying we shouldn't pay to kill the children in question."
First of all, we pro choicers arn't accusing you in the first place of personally inseminating these women. Strawman number one. What you ARE ultimately talking about is enacting a policy that would further the control of their rape upon them. But we will get to that in a minute. Second, you state it is their attackers that are forcing them to bear children and not you. Yeah, uh that is kinda our point. Their attackers SHOULDNT GET TO force them to bear children. The fact that they started it isn't the matter. They already forced them to have carnal knowledge. That was ENOUGH of an abuse. And by enacting legislation to subject these women to another event against their will, you ARE participating in the furtherance of the perps original violation.
"Second, and more important, is the sexism of the senator's attitude. Are women just the soil in which a man may plant his seed? Isn't it her baby too? Just because a woman has been raped doesn't mean she isn't a mother. For this senator to refer to the baby as "the rapist's child" dismisses the woman as an object. But it was seeing the woman as just an object that allowed the attack in the first place. Perhaps that is where the good senator found common ground with the rapist."
Funny how you make the remark accusing our side of seeing women as just the soil to be planted upon considering the Catholic Church's stance on contraception and sex being primarily for procreation. If ANYONE views women as soil to be fertilized it is your side. Is it her baby too? Genetics can only create a bond so much in some women. It is obvious that not all women see the children they bear as special or even something they bond with. And your use of "just because" is really showing. JUST BECAUSE she was raped? JUST BECAUSE?!? Way to triviliaze the subject of rape thru wording. And if a woman is forced to have a baby created thru violence against her will, it IS the rapist's child. The child was born from his will. He forced her to get pregant and than forced her to have it. That birth was totally his doing and the doing of archaic laws that allow him to do it. Yes, it WAS seeing that woman as an object that lead to her being victimized in the first place. And it is seeing her as an object that allows YOUR side to turn her into an object AGAIN by forcing her to have a baby against her will. It is YOUR side good sir that is displaying the power dynamic of the rapist, not ours.
I plan on responding to more letters of this site in the future. Stay tuned.
Sunday, July 3, 2011
Personhood USA: But not for women REPOST
(I apologize folks for my last post. I didn't check the spelling very well. This is my repost)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tud1QRV6jy0
This is my response to this vid. This organization is called Personhood USA. They are testifying at the Louisiana House regarding legislation to outlaw abortion with no exceptions for rape, incest or health. It would also outlaw emergency contraception ( which, I might add, would cut down on the need for abortions, especially in cases of rape).
Ms Kiessling: The "symptoms" of abortion you describe sound manufactured to say the least. But isn't it also possible that all the symptoms you describe a post abortive rape victim to go thru could be because of people in YOUR camp who vilify them for their choice and perpetuate the enormous societal stigma that women who have abortions face? Couldnt it also be that those symptoms could be from the trauma of the rape itself?
"with incest, not only does the rape typically end after she gives birth, but for all the other young women in the household".
Have you ever considered that the perp might stop raping their victims once they give birth because their victims aged out in the first place? Pedophiles by definition go after children and not adolescents. It is also noteworthy that in some instances, the perps go on to abuse the child they fathered with their victim. Or they even go on to abuse other children in the area if they are not already. Also, many victims who reach the point of menarche have become more integrated into the society at large and have more contact and life experience which could create an incentive in them to speak up about the abuse they are suffering since it becomes more difficult for the perp to control them. Considering the birth defects that can result from inbreeding, are you prepared to supply free healthcare to the children born of these forced unions to unwilling mothers? Are you prepared to offer the rape survivors free mental health support?
"if you really care about a rape victim, you would want to protect her from the abortion and NOT THE BABY."
RAPE VICTIM ADVOCACY 101: the number 1 need of survivors of sexual violence is to feel in control of their lives again by being able to make choices about their own bodies and destiny. The ONLY thing a rape victim needs to be protected from is the rapist and the society that makes their victimhood possible and that perpetuates the violent control of their rapist against them. In other words, people in YOUR camp. What else exactly Ms Kiessling would you want to "protect" these women from? A myriad of different actions can hurt these women, from filing a police report to going to the ER. Which events do you think should be outlawed on the basis they might end up being damaging? This rhetoric is also highly insulting since it insinuates that women need to be protected from their own choices. Do you know what is commonly said to victims of rape? That the choices they made before, during and after the rape were the "wrong" ones and that they didnt do enough. You are doing the exact same thing by coming in and saying that any victim who makes the choice to have an abortion isnt doing her best also. And what is with the hyperbolic speech about NOT THE BABY? Your tone there is rather infantile and says to me that your REAL concern is that an embryo not be aborted. If you are really concerned for the needs of rape victims who in your terms are being exploited by the option of a legal abortion, why don't you make it so there is more screening done at abortion clinics so that potential victims are identified more easily? Also, I highly doubt that most women going in for an abortion are doing it because they are "afraid" of their fetus and feel the need to be protected from it. And true, which "baby" exactly are you trying to protect? With your example of incest, the victim could very well be close in age to that of a small child. And even for an adult, isn't that woman somebody's "baby"?
"A baby is not the worst thing that can happen to a rape victim and abortion is."
Who are you again to tell ANY victim of a violent crime what they should consider to be the worst consequence of that crime let alone dictate by law what they should consider to be? And apparently a baby IS the worst thing to happen to at least SOME rape victims or else they wouldnt voluntarily go for an abortion. And seriously? You think an abortion is worse than getting,say, AIDS from a rape, getting stoned for it because you live in a third world country, or getting beaten to a bloody pulp by your rapist and left disabled for life? I will give you one prop. There ARE some types of abortions that could be worse for a rape victim. A forced abortion done against the victims wishes. Or an illegal, unsafe abortion because she didnt have access to a proper medically trained one, which is WHAT YOUR LAWS LEAD TO!! A baby isnt the worst thing that can happen to a rape victim in YOUR opinion because in your mind, the greatest thing to ever happen to your mom or this world is that you were born because your mom was denied a choice.
I plan on doing followups to this Rebecca Kiessling's vids and blogs. She is an outpsoken anti choice activist that I find dangerous and misleading. I will see you all then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tud1QRV6jy0
This is my response to this vid. This organization is called Personhood USA. They are testifying at the Louisiana House regarding legislation to outlaw abortion with no exceptions for rape, incest or health. It would also outlaw emergency contraception ( which, I might add, would cut down on the need for abortions, especially in cases of rape).
Ms Kiessling: The "symptoms" of abortion you describe sound manufactured to say the least. But isn't it also possible that all the symptoms you describe a post abortive rape victim to go thru could be because of people in YOUR camp who vilify them for their choice and perpetuate the enormous societal stigma that women who have abortions face? Couldnt it also be that those symptoms could be from the trauma of the rape itself?
"with incest, not only does the rape typically end after she gives birth, but for all the other young women in the household".
Have you ever considered that the perp might stop raping their victims once they give birth because their victims aged out in the first place? Pedophiles by definition go after children and not adolescents. It is also noteworthy that in some instances, the perps go on to abuse the child they fathered with their victim. Or they even go on to abuse other children in the area if they are not already. Also, many victims who reach the point of menarche have become more integrated into the society at large and have more contact and life experience which could create an incentive in them to speak up about the abuse they are suffering since it becomes more difficult for the perp to control them. Considering the birth defects that can result from inbreeding, are you prepared to supply free healthcare to the children born of these forced unions to unwilling mothers? Are you prepared to offer the rape survivors free mental health support?
"if you really care about a rape victim, you would want to protect her from the abortion and NOT THE BABY."
RAPE VICTIM ADVOCACY 101: the number 1 need of survivors of sexual violence is to feel in control of their lives again by being able to make choices about their own bodies and destiny. The ONLY thing a rape victim needs to be protected from is the rapist and the society that makes their victimhood possible and that perpetuates the violent control of their rapist against them. In other words, people in YOUR camp. What else exactly Ms Kiessling would you want to "protect" these women from? A myriad of different actions can hurt these women, from filing a police report to going to the ER. Which events do you think should be outlawed on the basis they might end up being damaging? This rhetoric is also highly insulting since it insinuates that women need to be protected from their own choices. Do you know what is commonly said to victims of rape? That the choices they made before, during and after the rape were the "wrong" ones and that they didnt do enough. You are doing the exact same thing by coming in and saying that any victim who makes the choice to have an abortion isnt doing her best also. And what is with the hyperbolic speech about NOT THE BABY? Your tone there is rather infantile and says to me that your REAL concern is that an embryo not be aborted. If you are really concerned for the needs of rape victims who in your terms are being exploited by the option of a legal abortion, why don't you make it so there is more screening done at abortion clinics so that potential victims are identified more easily? Also, I highly doubt that most women going in for an abortion are doing it because they are "afraid" of their fetus and feel the need to be protected from it. And true, which "baby" exactly are you trying to protect? With your example of incest, the victim could very well be close in age to that of a small child. And even for an adult, isn't that woman somebody's "baby"?
"A baby is not the worst thing that can happen to a rape victim and abortion is."
Who are you again to tell ANY victim of a violent crime what they should consider to be the worst consequence of that crime let alone dictate by law what they should consider to be? And apparently a baby IS the worst thing to happen to at least SOME rape victims or else they wouldnt voluntarily go for an abortion. And seriously? You think an abortion is worse than getting,say, AIDS from a rape, getting stoned for it because you live in a third world country, or getting beaten to a bloody pulp by your rapist and left disabled for life? I will give you one prop. There ARE some types of abortions that could be worse for a rape victim. A forced abortion done against the victims wishes. Or an illegal, unsafe abortion because she didnt have access to a proper medically trained one, which is WHAT YOUR LAWS LEAD TO!! A baby isnt the worst thing that can happen to a rape victim in YOUR opinion because in your mind, the greatest thing to ever happen to your mom or this world is that you were born because your mom was denied a choice.
I plan on doing followups to this Rebecca Kiessling's vids and blogs. She is an outpsoken anti choice activist that I find dangerous and misleading. I will see you all then
Disclaimer
My posts are going to be pretty heated. I am passionate about many issues and I intend to critique alot of other blogs and such. Be forwarned
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